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Room acoustic treatment

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orcoaffamato

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Room acoustic treatment

PostSun May 08, 2016 5:20 am

Hello,

I'd like to know if anybody of you has made some acoustic treatment in the room where your Hauptwerk organ is placed and if it's worth it.
Mine will be placed in my bedroom (4m x 3m), that obviously has some furnitures that will be rearranged (wardrobe; desk; bed; bookshelf) + one window, but I don't know if I should leave it how it is or make some acoustic treatment (considering tha I can't put the furnitures in another room).
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engrssc

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostSun May 08, 2016 3:19 pm

First consideration - How does it sound as is?

Rgds,
Ed
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1961TC4ME

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostSun May 08, 2016 8:51 pm

engrssc wrote:First consideration - How does it sound as is?

Rgds,
Ed


And a description of the current audio layout would be helpful as well.

I'm also willing to bet this gets moved to amplification. :wink:

Marc
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jkinkennon

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostSun May 08, 2016 10:13 pm

You will primarily be listening to see if one or two pedal notes are especially loud and resonant and do not respond much to lowering their levels with the Hauptwerk voicing controls. That's most likely to be the case if the room dimensions are duplicates or multiples of each other. Moving the bed into a corner, or to a different corner could accomplish the same result as installing a triangle of acoustical treatment in a corner. If the floor is carpeted or your room contains draperies that all helps. An extremely resonant room is more likely to have its 'modes' excited by low frequencies.

If you have a room with a 9' ceiling, a 9' width, and an 18' length there are bound to be problems. Add hardwood or tile flooring and the problem will be worse. Look to dampen the sound a bit, especially in corners.
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orcoaffamato

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 09, 2016 1:09 am

engrssc wrote:First consideration - How does it sound as is?

Rgds,
Ed


Well honestly as for now I can't hear very well the 16' pedal stops, but I still don't have a subwoofer, I have only a pair of Neumann KH120 attached to a RME Fireface 802. I've just begun to put my gear togheter for Hauptwerk.

I put a simple draw of how will be my room when it will be rearranged.

The floor is made of parquet and I have 3 little carpets at disposal.

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orcoaffamato

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 09, 2016 1:12 am

1961TC4ME wrote:
I'm also willing to bet this gets moved to amplification. :wink:

Marc


I didn't know where to post this so I chose general discussion :oops:
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Martin_Dümig

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 09, 2016 2:51 am

My Hauptwerk organ is sited in a long and narrow cellar room with concrete walls and with shelfes on one side. I had problems with highlited and damped frequencies and standing waves.

I am using a Behringer DEQ2496 Soundprocessor to adapt the frequency response to the room. You need a measurement microphone to connect to the DEQ2496 and site it at the position, where your ears will bee when playing the organ. Then there is a automatic measurement process build in the Soundprocessor. It is producing white noice and adapting the frequency response to a flat line (at the point, where the microphone is sited).

Using this technique, i had none of my organs to voice, since all seemed to sound as over headphones.

Best regards - Martin
You can play Bach on every organ.
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orcoaffamato

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 09, 2016 3:11 am

Martin_Dümig wrote:My Hauptwerk organ is sited in a long and narrow cellar room with concrete walls and with shelfes on one side. I had problems with highlited and damped frequencies and standing waves.

I am using a Behringer DEQ2496 Soundprocessor to adapt the frequency response to the room. You need a measurement microphone to connect to the DEQ2496 and site it at the position, where your ears will bee when playing the organ. Then there is a automatic measurement process build in the Soundprocessor. It is producing white noice and adapting the frequency response to a flat line (at the point, where the microphone is sited).

Using this technique, i had none of my organs to voice, since all seemed to sound as over headphones.

Best regards - Martin


Thanks for the tip.
I was checking also the DBX Driverack Venu360.
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1961TC4ME

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 09, 2016 9:56 am

orcoaffamato wrote:
1961TC4ME wrote:
I'm also willing to bet this gets moved to amplification. :wink:

Marc


I didn't know where to post this so I chose general discussion :oops:


Yeah, I was just pulling your leg! :mrgreen:

I'm working with about the same size (smallish) space less a few extra items such as a bed, etc. With all those items in the room, I'd guess the room response is very dead. The bed alone will absorb a considerable amount of the sound, then if there's also carpet on the floor it will be absorbed even more. This actually isn't all bad.

Rather than investing time and effort in any kind of room treatment, investing time in speaker selection and placement first would be much higher up in my list of priorities.

Marc
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orcoaffamato

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 09, 2016 10:06 am

1961TC4ME wrote:Rather than investing time and effort in any kind of room treatment, investing time in speaker selection and placement first would be much higher up in my list of priorities.

Marc


I was thinking, for the future, about 2 x Neumann KH310 + Neumann KH 805 sub (I will go for a 2.1 setup).
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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostTue May 10, 2016 12:12 pm

I liked the look of the KH310's. However, I decided that I wanted to try surround and maybe multi-channel later on. Buying a dozen KH310's seemed a bit expensive to me so I settled for the KH120's. Also, Neumann say that any KH120 will be well-matched to any other KH120. So spreading the purchase over a few years may work out. Whether I need another before they go out of production is another matter.

The KH120's have less bass than the, much cheaper, speakers they replaced in my set up but they are much smaller. I figured that as I was going to get a sub anyway it may as well work for a living. The other point was that the rear speakers would be placed on a bookshelf and the KH120's would fit. Even the port faced forwards and all the speakers would match.

Subs from people like Neumann and Genelec are very expensive because they act as hubs for the complete system. I am sure they are good but I could not quite see the value for money aspect so I opted for something else.

My room is about as long as yours but less wide. It has a carpet and is lined with books and sheet music so it already has acoustic treatment. :) The main problem is the bass. You can't live without it but you can't live with it, either. The piano is stuffed with material to hold certain panels in place and even door knobs have slips of cardboard judiciously inserted.

I have been tempted by something like this to help with my sub. http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/ ... de--DC.htm It should limit the resonances while allowing a reasonable base level setting. Passive treatment for bass resonances is difficult. A lining of rock wool will not cut it. Basically, the size of the treatment and the sound wavelength are related.
Richard
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orcoaffamato

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostTue May 10, 2016 2:46 pm

RichardW wrote:I liked the look of the KH310's. However, I decided that I wanted to try surround and maybe multi-channel later on. Buying a dozen KH310's seemed a bit expensive to me so I settled for the KH120's. Also, Neumann say that any KH120 will be well-matched to any other KH120. So spreading the purchase over a few years may work out. Whether I need another before they go out of production is another matter.


I'd like that too, but I really got no room for surround and multi channel!
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mdyde

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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 16, 2016 9:33 am

[Topic moved here -- it seemed to fit marginally better!]
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Room acoustic treatment

PostMon May 16, 2016 9:52 am

orcoaffamato wrote:
RichardW wrote:I liked the look of the KH310's. However, I decided that I wanted to try surround and maybe multi-channel later on. Buying a dozen KH310's seemed a bit expensive to me so I settled for the KH120's. Also, Neumann say that any KH120 will be well-matched to any other KH120. So spreading the purchase over a few years may work out. Whether I need another before they go out of production is another matter.


I'd like that too, but I really got no room for surround and multi channel!


Ah, you'd be surprised! If there's a will there's a way and I've never encountered a room that can't be set up for multi-channel and surround. For a very decent sounding surround arrangement it doesn't take anything overly fancy or large either, especially in a room that size. You could do the speakers you're talking about (or even something much less expensive) for the front portion of the sound system as you describe, then tuck a sub in somewhere. For the rear portion it doesn't have to be anything more than some small bookshelf or small quality satellite speakers that can be easily placed on top of a shelf or cabinet, hung from the wall, etc. A little judicial wire running and you're in business and liking the results! :D Well worth the effort.

Marc

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