Hauptwerk Channel Assignments

Geez, I guess I'm the lucky one here. My wife was the one who actually GOT me my Hauptwerk system! She insisted that I start playing again.

Anyway, back to the routing question that started this whole thing, I have only 4 channels, so I kind of was thinking along the lines of dividing them according to Principles, Strings, Mixtures, Flutes, and Reeds. But I don't know if that is feasible.

~Scott

Yes, looks like you are indeed the lucky one! Seems when it comes to altering the looks of the decor part with big speakers, cables and wires running everywhere, not to mention that big ol' console that gets planted in the living room is where the problem starts.

Anything is possible or worth a try, I'd probably send the principles, strings and flutes to one pair of channels and the reeds and mixtures to the other pair. The only hitch here being, and the next question is, if you have a sub, where that gets connected? With just 4 channels I guess I'd probably be inclined to go with the sub being connected to the channels the principals, etc. are connected to.

Marc

The great (and at times frustrating) thing, as you all know, is that every situation is different...not just with your audio setup but the sampleset you are using as well.

I bought Augustine's latest set, the Klais Organ of Szikszo, which you can load in as a "surround set." I found this to be most satisfying in my living room. In this instance, I loaded it up in an 8 channel setup....4 channels across the "front" at ear level. These have 6" woofers and handle everything from 8" pipes on up. The 2 full range speakers (with the 15" woofers) on either side of the organ have the 16' and 32' pipes. Then the 2 rear channels have a stereo surround feed minus the 16 and 32 ft pedals.

The great thing about this set is that you can mix the amount of surround right from the console view. After that it's a matter of fine tuning the front speakers, which I will take my time with and undoubtedly have many revisions.

Certainly a learning curve!

Joe

I think that by deviating from letting Hauptwerk handle the speakers you are creating an opportunity for mass confusion.

Unlike Allen and Rodgers where the speakers are called tone cabinets because they separate the different pipes to different cabinets designed for those 'tones', Hauptwerk takes the basic fact that the original recording was done in stereo (if not binaural) and the best approach to the best sound is to recreate what the microphones heard with the least amount of distortion. This is accomplished by letting Hauptwerk control multiple stereo pairs of speakers to minimize the distortion caused by having too many pipes in one speaker pair. The Hauptwerk algorithm "Cyclic within octaves, octaves and ranks cycled" manages the speaker system to increase clarity and a feeling of spaciousness by moving the sounds through the speaker pairs. The subwoofer produces sounds, which because of their low frequency, are difficult for the listener to locate. These sounds usually come from a mixdown channel pair that sends the contents of all the other channels to the subwoofer and lets either the subwoofer low-pass filter or an external filter remove the sounds above the capability of the subwoofer.

Then if you have surround sound channels they should be in the rear of your listening area and be a separate audio group from the front channels. An alternate surround would be to use only one stereo pair of excellent speakers for the front and a pair of very good speakers for the rear.

Trying to control what pipes go to what speakers yourself is often a frustrating and thankless task.
Hauptwerk makes it easy.

Best regards,

Thomas

Thomas makes some good points. I'll add some more specifics since my setup is very similar to yours; 2 full range speakers with 15" woofers and an array of studio monitors. I'm not sure if you've stated what the other 6 speakers in your setup consist of . . . .active monitors or passive speakers powered by separate amps.

Since your 2 full range speakers are of a different design, size, (maybe make and model) from the other 6 speakers they should be on their own audio group. Again, I'm taking for granted the other 4 used "across the front" are identical in make and model. For these 4, add them to their own audio group. Then for the last 2 speakers (surround), assign them to a 3rd group.

If you have a headphone jack on your audio interface, it should show up as a separate L & R channel in the HW audio configuration menu. For this you'll need to use the "mix Down" feature and route both groups or maybe all three so when listening through headphones you get a mix-down of all ranks.

For what its worth, here is how I have divided my 3 manual classical sample sets:

Audio Groups:
Main = 2, CV full range speakers with 15" woofer
Studio = 8, 2031A studio monitors (4 stereo pairs)
Surround = 2, 2031P studio monitors

Allocation:
Pedal & Great to Main Group
Choir & Swell to Studio Group
Surround samples (where applicable) to Surround Group

For the Studio Group, as Thomas mentions, I'm using the Hauptwerk algorithm "Cyclic within octaves, octaves and ranks cycled". There are actually 4 other algorithms to choose from however this one gives the most efficient use of spreading notes and ranks evenly across speakers. It's design also tries to keep (as best it can) minor 3rd intervals of the same pipe rank, in the 'popular' key signatures, from playing in the same speaker to lower IMD.

While playing through one of my sample sets, I moved a couple things around a bit. For example, a Swell chorus reed was moved from its default "Studio" group to the "Main" group as it seemed to blend better with bigger registrations drawn. Granted this and a few other tweaks came about after months of playing this set.

Finally, Hauptwerk gives you the chance to design a completely different audio group design without affecting the one you have now. That's the beauty of the Alt Config (1,2,3) shortcuts that you can choose from.

Enjoy,

Danny B.

Thanks for your input, Danny...

So am I understanding properly that if you assign multiple pairs of speaker audio outputs to a single Audio Output Group, HW automatically will logically distribute the signal among all the speakers when selecting that "cyclic" algorithm? In other words, if there are 3 pairs of speakers sent to one Group, it is not the same stereo signal simply being sent to each of the 3 pairs?

Thanks,
Joe

Some further info regarding output routing that may help:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15290

orgoblo wrote:Hi Forum

This appears to have come up before: Missing notes on the mixdown channels. All was working well for me until I started chasing (and fixed) my distortion on mixdown (was overdriving the DA).

In doing the distortion debug I even reset to factory all the settings. Shotgun?? Anyway....I added the addition groups as required 'main output (Delta 1010LT 003/004) 001/002 and did so up to and including channel 9/10. Then in the 'advance' under routing I called up EACH group (eg: 003/004) in the drop down box. BUT>..I AM NOT ABLE to pull other than 'none' in the drop down for box 'aux send 1) for example. The only option is NONE. Previously I had the option to select 009/010 or some such as I recall. NODA now.

IN the headphones (right off the DA) I hear what sounds to be the spacing of the tone. FOr example: Flute 8 sounds on C and F ONLY ...in the first octave. then maybe E and A sound in the 2nd octave. Kinda funny really. And talk about a weird ensemble while playing!!!

So there it is. BTW: I made sure 'PRIMARY' has been selected in one of those boxes (I forget under which one....maybe 'routing audio groups'. I don't recall. IOW: It is NOT something about 'directly send to aux channels'. I choose PRIMARY>

Is this vague enough??

Best
Dave


Hi again,

Under Routing and aux mix; set each pair used 1-2; 3-4; 5-6; 7-8 to Primary Output (destination for pipe routing)
and 9-10 for Aux mix-down. Then at 1-2 set the Aux send 1 destination to 9-10 mix-down. Now do the same for 3-4, 5-6, 7-8. All notes should now appear in 9-10. They should all send to 9-10 mix-down.

http://www.contrebombarde.com/concertha ... d/limit/10

Mixed Signals

Multi channel audio is consistently one of the most confusing elements to setting up a Hauptwerk instrument.

So, I thought I'd explain a few things and show a test case.

Audio Output Groups vs. Audio Outputs

The first thing to explain that each entry in "Audio output groups" is the name you are going to give to a group of output channels that you want to be associated with each other. You can then assign output channels in the "Audio outputs" area by selecting that name in the "routing and aux mix" tab for those channels.

For example: You may have a "Main Output" group which is where you want most of your ranks to play through. However, you have a couple of extra speakers that you want to be for an antiphonal rank of trumpet pipes at the back of your room. You would then make a new output group called, say "Antiphonal".

After you have made your output groups, and assigned your audio outputs to those groups, you need to direct pipe ranks to play though those output groups.

Directing Pipe Ranks to Audio Output Groups

To do this, you will go to Organ > Load organ, adjusting rank audio/memory options/routing and select the sample set you wish to configure. Highlight the rank(s) you wish to go to a particular output group. Then select that output group in the "Audio output group" drop down box.

Once you have re-routed all the intended ranks, click "ok" and the sample set will begin to load.

Considerations

I do not, typically, use multiple audio output groups unless I have the aforementioned antiphonal stop/division and that rank is physically in a different area from the rest of the speakers. The other situation where I might use it is where there are a bunch of different kinds of speaker pairs.

What most people are taught, largely by digital organ companies, is to have 2 speakers for each manual. So, they get 2 speakers for the great, 2 for the swell, 2 for the choir etc.

The problem with that arrangement is that, if you're only playing the swell at the moment, you have a whole bunch of other speakers not doing anything.

Luckily, Hauptwerk is very smart with it's multi channeling. So, you can do much better than that kind of configuration.

Rgds,
Ed

I have read that thread previously, Ed. But it's always good to review with a fresh set of eyes. Thanks for the reminder...

I don't think that answers my question though... if 3 pairs of speakers (3 audio groups) are sent to 1 Audio Group Output and that output is set for the cyclic output algorithm....does HW send the same output to each of the 3 pairs, or does it allocate for the 3 pairs and distribute the audio accordingly? In other words....does the "cycle" involve all 6 speakers, or simply 2 speakers mimicked 3 times?

Best,
Joe

Thank you, Ed. Again, this is new to me and have quite a bit to learn and get "up to speed"

You might find this free downloadable book useful:

http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/home/view_cat/cat/1/sort/123/order/last_modified/limit/6

http://www.midiworks.ca

Also Ken Spencer's book:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14329&p=111304&hilit=Kenneth+Spencer+All+about+Hauptwerk#p111304

Rgds,
Ed

Joe,

The formula used by Hauptwerk to assign a note to a particular speaker (or stereo pair) is:

speaker_num = ( note_in_oct + oct_num + rank_seq_num) mod num_speakers

The variable "rank_seq_num" (or RankID) is assigned by the ODF writer and is hard coded and cannot be changed by the end user.

If you have three pairs of speakers assigned to a group with the default octaves and ranks cycled setting, then for example C in rank 1 will go to speaker pair 1, C in rank 2 will go to pair 2, and C in rank 3 will go to pair 3; C# in rank 1 will go to pair 2, C# in rank 2 will go to pair 3, and C# in rank 3 will go to pair 1... and so on in a round robin fashion. At octave boundaries, there is a single semi-tone offset so that notes an octave apart in any given rank will not be routed to the same pair.

The net effect of all of this is to make the most efficient use of a group of speakers possible. This routing scheme is one of the most brilliant innovations offered by Hauptwerk.

Joe Hardy
Paramount Organ Works

I don't think that answers my question though... if 3 pairs of speakers (3 audio groups) are sent to 1 Audio Group Output and that output is set for the cyclic output algorithm....does HW send the same output to each of the 3 pairs, or does it allocate for the 3 pairs and distribute the audio accordingly? In other words....does the "cycle" involve all 6 speakers, or simply 2 speakers mimicked 3 times?

Good questions. I had to read that section of the manual a couple times and experiment to fully understand it when I first got started. The easy answer is a single Audio Group can have as many speakers assigned to it as you want. Remember my earlier post, most HW sample sets sound best in stereo (2 speakers, L & R). To truly hear the effect of the cycling algorithms, you need more than one "Audio output device" assigned as listed in the Audio Outputs menu option. In your case since you have 4 front speakers (leaving out the full range speaker pair) you can have 4 mono speakers or 2 stereo pairs.

So for illustration sake, in the Audio Output Groups menu create a group called SM_Front for "small front"
Then in the Audio Outputs, "Main" tab for 2 stereo pairs you would set up in the "Essential Settings" section as:

Front_A Device Channel 1 (L)
_______Device Channel 2 (R)
Front_B Device Channel 3 (L)
_______Device Channel 4 (R)

On the 2nd tab called "Routing and aux mix (advanced settings)" is where you can assign both "Front A" output device (a stereo pair) and "Front B" output device (a second stereo pair) to the SM_Front audio group. So this single group has 2 stereo pairs to divvy sound across.

After configuration and saving, Hauptwerk will rebuild its Cache to incorporate the new audio and routing changes. Once set up, you can test this by selecting a single stop (a reed stop works well here) assigned to the SM_Front group, play a scale and hear some notes in the Front_A pair and others in the Front_B pair. To me this is the thrilling part instead of having the same note sound equally on all 4 speakers.

Also note that depending on how a rank was sampled and the chest style, you may get some natural spacial movement from left to right (or right to left). In other words if the rank is on a of a chromatic pipe chest (longest pipes at one end and shortest at the opposite end) you could hear the lower notes more prominent on the Left channel and higher notes of that rank more prominent on the Right. Notes around middle C usually sound evenly on both Left and Right channels. There are a lot of factors and unknowns here so YMMV.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me I'll be happy to send you screen shots from my configuration if that would help.

Regards,

Danny B.

You can not use cycling with only one pair in a group.

In a group of 3 or more pairs of speakers Hauptwerk will cycle the pipes through the speakers as the keys are pressed.

A surround system with a stereo pair in front and a stereo pair in the rear would not cycle either.

Even if you do not have enough speakers, you can set up enough channels to watch Hauptwerk cycle through them. It is pretty dramatic to have 24 channels cycling on a MOTU 24Ao.

Thomas.

Gentlemen,

All of you have offered great things to think about and consider. Thank you to everyone.

So now, If I have this correct...my system (at least for now, as it stands) would be structured as follows:
-- 1 pair of Full Range ("PA" type) speakers in stereo with 32' and 16 ft' ranks routed. This pair will NOT cycle.
-- 2 pairs of Studio speakers across the front of the room, getting the remainder of ranks and all sent to one Audio Output Group that will cycle across all of them
-- 1 pair of Studio speakers in the rear (with 32" and 16" ranks omitted) for the stereo surround channel, that also will not cycle.

My only other consideration would be to arrange a channel for the subwoofer. I don't know how effective or necessary it would be to assign that to the surround channels, but I will try experimenting with it at some point.

Joe

Hi Joe,
Looks OK, but do not try to send 32' pitches through most speakers as they will not produce 16 Hertz,
and will distort severely, If your amplifier will even put out these ultra low pitches !

32' pitches, require multiple superior Sub Woofers that are designed to produce usable output at 16 HZ.

Very few available speakers will provide sufficient 16 HZ output to enjoy feeling it's result !