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These look like a good choice in monitors

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These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby 1961TC4ME » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:55 pm

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Presonus/E ... Monitor.gc

I'm considering going to active monitors at some point and have been doing some research. There seems to be a couple monitors that are highly recommended here (Behringer 2031A as an example), however when I check the specs they all fall into the relative same range of frequency response. It doesn't make sense to me to go out and buy expensive monitors that only reach down to around 50hz and then ask the sub or subs to fill in the gap. The recommended monitors here may sound great but I'd venture to guess there's something in the sound spectrum that is being sorely missed, and I'd much rather go with a monitor that not only sounds great, but also has the capability like these do to get down into lower frequencies. I've also come to the conclusion that monitors with no smaller than 8" drivers is the way to go, and the above Behringers do have that, but still offer the less than impressive lows. I'm implementing this theory now with my current set up going with larger speakers combined with 2 subs and it works well. In the past I've tried the 50hz bookshelf speaker / sub combo idea and it sounds good, but doesn't work too well far as I'm concerned once you've heard speakers that can reach into the mid 30's hz range combined with a sub. To me it's not even a contest.

Check out the specs and reviews of this one. I'd be interested to hear from anyone that my already be using these and what they think.

Marc
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby johnstump_organist » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:27 pm

They have many good reviews and actually if your running a sub with your setup, the E5's would pretty much handle anything down to the bottom of an 8' and would be lighter on the pocket book.
I'm considering a pair for my office computer.
John
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby Grant_Youngman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:02 pm

1961TC4ME wrote:https://www.guitarcenter.com/Presonus/Eris-E8-High-Definition-2-way-8-Nearfield-Studio-Monitor.gc

once you've heard speakers that can reach into the mid 30's hz range combined with a sub. To me it's not even a contest.

Marc


While they may be decent monitors, I'd be suspicious of any 8" monitor in this class claiming a 35Hz low end. Especially since they don't give you a spec. If it was really good, they'd publish it. It's likely at the very least 10dB down, and may well be more.
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby sonar11 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:22 pm

The difference between 50 hz and 80 hz is miniscule. I haven't done the math, but I'm sure that just covers 2 or 3 pipes in the 8' range. You get no advantage from using an 8 inch speaker vs a 5 inch speaker because regardless of which one you choose, you will still need a sub. Any decent sub will cover the full 16' range all the way up to 80 hz, and do a far better job between 40 hz to 80 hz than a bookshelf with a single 8 inch woofer could ever hope to do.

Better off spending the same amount of cash on a high quality 5 or 6 inch driver. The sub won't change in either setup, but as soon as you add a sub to the system you will need to run a crossover to prevent both speakers and sub playing the same frequency overlap. So at that point the bottom of the 8/6 inch speaker gets cut off, and you just lost money to buy lower extension from a speaker that you're not actually using.

You can purchase a mic and download free software and scan your room while you're playing to see if you have a dip in your frequency response.

In short; an 8 inch bookshelf generally only makes sense if you don't plan to buy a sub.
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby magnaton » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:18 pm

Hi Marc:

I'd put more weight on what your ears will tell you verses the raw specs. Read on and I'll explain what I mean. I've been tweaking and voicing ranks (when needed) with my Berrys for a few years now and I've been impressed with the low end they provide. These are powerful, ported monitors in a wooden enclosure. It's my opinion that the published specs are a little conservative, based on the driver design verses a recorded or tested output using testing equipment. When purchased new, Behringer does provide a QC report which shows a few graphs and test results of your actual speaker as referenced by the serial number. But even if they didn't, for the manual flue ranks at 8' pitch, low C (usually 65.4Hz) you're good to go. If you did route 16ft ranks to them, mathematically speaking you'd hear a drop off probably around low G#.

I reviewed your past threads where you list your current audio setup and see you have a couple of large, Polk tower speakers. With my setup I also use a pair of large tower, 3-way speakers. They work very well with HW! The amp that powers them has an LFO output to which my subwoofer is attached. So its easy to route all pedal ranks to them as they can handle the wide range from Octave 4' to a 32', flues and reeds. However for the Paramount TO, 16' pitch is really unified lower octave extensions (Flute, Tibia, Open Diapason, Diaphonic Diapason, String, etc.). In a typical Wurlitzer TO pipe organ, ranks available at 16' pitch have a lower octave extension and the pipes (last 12) are on separate offset chests. For my setup, the Tibia, Open, and Flute ranks are sent to the Berrys so I followed the "Wurlitzer spec" and routed the last 11 notes to the large 3-way+sub speakers using the Hauptwerk Bass Split feature found in the rank routing section. Well **lo and behold** the transition between tenor C and B natural wasn't as smooth as I thought it should be. So with some assistance with another organist we experimented with where the bass split should actually take place for the best seamless transition. This is where I discovered that the Berrys indeed have an excellent low end to them. I was impressed with how well it handled the lower Tibia octave! I think the split for that rank is at G and F# and you really can't hear the speaker switch unless you are right next to them.

Regarding the Eris E8s, I heard them in a studio and thought they were excellent. Actually I've had really good impressions with other types Presonus speakers as well. I do have a HW friend in another city whose setup includes the four E8s and he speaks highly of them.

Danny B.
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby magnaton » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:39 pm

sonar11 wrote:Better off spending the same amount of cash on a high quality 5 or 6 inch driver. The sub won't change in either setup, but as soon as you add a sub to the system you will need to run a crossover to prevent both speakers and sub playing the same frequency overlap.

Many active subwoofers have a variable frequency cutoff control knob that stops at 50hz. So I see your point if you incorporate studio monitors cable of going lower than 50hz. However from my experience, there is a frequency fall off (-3 db) as you approach the bottom range and if the sub is some distance away, a frequency overlap isn't that much of a concern. I personally prefer a little overlap for a smoother transition achieved by tweaking the volume and the freq cut off on the sub.

I would still recommend going with models that incorporate an 8 inch driver for better performance in the lower mid-range. As for cost, if you watch for sales it could be a moot point. Currently Monoprice has their 8" studio monitors on sale making it cheaper than their 5" version!

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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby sonar11 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:14 am

magnaton wrote:Many active subwoofers have a variable frequency cutoff control knob that stops at 50hz. So I see your point if you incorporate studio monitors cable of going lower than 50hz. However from my experience, there is a frequency fall off (-3 db) as you approach the bottom range and if the sub is some distance away, a frequency overlap isn't that much of a concern. I personally prefer a little overlap for a smoother transition achieved by tweaking the volume and the freq cut off on the sub.



Agreed, a tiny bit of overlap is needed to smooth the transition.

magnaton wrote:I would still recommend going with models that incorporate an 8 inch driver for better performance in the lower mid-range.


Again, this depends on where you set your crossover at. An 8 inch driver doesn't go much lower than a 5 inch. You still need a sub in both setups. You would get a better setup when each component is well within the boundary of it's capabilities. So using a sub for lower frequency, it can easily crossover at 70 or 80 hz (80 being the traditional "home theatre" crossover setting), freeing up power for the bookshelf speaker to play cleaner with lower distortion because it's not being asked to take on those very low frequencies.


magnaton wrote:As for cost, if you watch for sales it could be a moot point. Currently Monoprice has their 8" studio monitors on sale making it cheaper than their 5" version!


Right, but now if you wait for the 5" to go on sale, how much more do you save vs the 8" when it's on sale... ? :)

In the end, we all have our own personal preferences, but I just don't see the point of having a ton of 8" bookshelfs in a home setup. I'd much rather save the money and buy higher quality 6" for the "main" sound. Let's face it, the bulk of the sound of what you hear is going to be that crucial range from 100 hz to 15 khz. It's far more important to "get that right", than it is to worry about extending an extra 10 hz at the extreme bottom which any cheap and capable sub can reach without any effort at all.

Just my opinion; I'll stop harping on it :P
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby magnaton » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:34 am

sonar11 wrote:In the end, we all have our own personal preferences, but I just don't see the point of having a ton of 8" bookshelfs in a home setup. I'd much rather save the money and buy higher quality 6" for the "main" sound. Let's face it, the bulk of the sound of what you hear is going to be that crucial range from 100 hz to 15 khz. It's far more important to "get that right", than it is to worry about extending an extra 10 hz at the extreme bottom which any cheap and capable sub can reach without any effort at all.

Just my opinion; I'll stop harping on it :P

Very well stated and your logic is sound. I'm enjoying this discussion since I'm an audio geek at heart. If I were to budget for a new VPO build with all new equipment for a normal sized living room or studio, 5" drivers would be the choice for the reasons you stated.

Yea, I'll stop harping too, but here are a couple of threads to review:
A short discussion on Presonus Eris 5 vs 8.
http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16028#p120423

Large arrays of in wall speakers with 8" drivers.
http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10333&p=76037

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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby pedro » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:31 am

Hi All
I just purchased-installed 6- Adam T7V speakers for a small room-12' x12'.
Thats for a 6 ch. hauptwerk setup.
I found out its a good thing to use all the same speakers for a setup.
They sound really good.
Sound is clean.
These active speakers are not to expensive either.
Pedro
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby sonar11 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:15 pm

Yes, to my ears, Adam simply dominates everything else; the reason being is that AMT tweeter. It is silky smooth, airy, clear, and very easy on the ears. Where I notice the difference is in pipes like an 8 foot principal where the clarity really shines (like somebody pulled back a cloth that was sitting on the speaker and is no longer muffling it), and in really high pitches like 2', 1', and mixtures. They are clear, but also non fatiguing. That's really the major difference for me, most other speakers are fatiguing to me when it comes to organ music (especially baroque). Even my $2000 KEF's do not play organ music as good as the Adam F5/F7's; the KEF does everything else better; they have a better "sweet spot", tighter bass, and sound really good from 16' pedal up to the 2' pitches, but then they simply cannot compete with the Adam's beyond that point, mainly due to the fatigue that sets in. Haven't heard the new T series from Adam, but thanks Pedro for that report, that's good news!
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby 1961TC4ME » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:40 pm

And then there's this deal. Wow, not too shabby!

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Presonus/E ... 8229166.gc

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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby Eric Sagmuller » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:17 pm

Regarding low end frequency response, I looked up the specs on the Mackie HR824 Mk l that I use. They have very detailed specs and show response down -3db at 37 Hz, then +- 1.5db 39 hz - 20khz. I was curious about the Behringer B2031a's too, but could not find any detailed specs for them.

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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby RichardW » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:17 pm

Eric Sagmuller wrote:I was curious about the Behringer B2031a's too, but could not find any detailed specs for them. Eric


Behringer quote from 50Hz to 21kHz. https://media.music-group.com/media/PLM ... cument.pdf

The HR824s were on my shortlist at one time because the bass looked quite good but I wanted a surround set which were all the same so I opted for smaller speakers and a sub in the end.
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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby Eric Sagmuller » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:43 pm

Yeah I saw this, but it really doesn't say much. Ultra linear to me would indicate a spec that's far better than a speaker could ever produce.

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Re: These look like a good choice in monitors

Postby RichardW » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:18 am

There are some speaker reviews with frequency response charts on the Internet. For example: http://noaudiophile.com/Behringer_Truth_B2031A/

Regards,
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