Audio equipment set-up challenge

In these locked-down days, perhaps someone would find this request for suggestions diverting:

I'm moving my organ (with HW v5) into a new room, 14'x22' (4.25m x 6.75m), and am considering how to set up the following audio resources. (Not everything has to be used.)

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
...10 line outputs, 1 SPDIF; 2 headphone outputs piggy-backed on channels 7/8 and 9/10. Via ADAT I might be able to add 2 channels.

4 Behringer 2031s
6 Definitive Technology BP 10s
2 Definitive Technology BP 8s
1 Def Tech SuperCube I (powered; both low-level and high-level in/out)

1 4-channel Crown CT 4150 amp
1 Behringer A600 amp
1 Yamaha receiver (has a SPDIF input; speakers A and B)
1 Crown XLS 1002 amp

Headphones

Although I previously used the BP8s+sub for pedal stops, I don't think I want to try to assign divisions to different speaker pairs. (I.e., I want to use all speakers, all the time.)

In my current set-up I have been using 2 BP10s as rear speakers with either the 4 other BP10s or the 2031s+sub for the front. I don't use the BP8s.

I've been experimenting with using both the BP10s and the 2031s with 6- and 8-channel sets and like the results. I find that different organs sound best with different set-ups. (Thanks, v5, for making this easy!)

Any takers? Thanks.

I think it depends on how many channels the sets you typically use have. My understanding is that the ideal is to have 4 sets of speakers for each pair of 2 channels, and to divide the pipes among those speakers using the "Cyclical within octaves" function (discussed on the forum before). At most, currently you have 6 pairs of speakers. Therefore, if you mostly use stereo sets, (1 channel), then it would make the most sense to set up two sets of 4 (using the most similar speakers). If you usually use 6 or 8 channels, then you would divide the speakers as equally as possible among the channels, and use the "cyclical within octaves" function as much as possible between them. A half way between these is to use your 6 BP 10's for the "front" speakers, then set up the remaining speakers pairs as some of the other channels (say for the 8 channel set, each other pair of channels has it's pair of speakers).

My impression though, from what I have read about the 6 or 8 (or 10) channel sets, is that most channels can be classified as either "Near the organ" or "far from the organ." Especially in a small room, the small differences between the recording positions won't be as audible. Rather, the biggest differences in "recording position" are between different sets, because of the size of the acoustic, different microphone placements, etc.

So what I would do is put 4 pairs as your "Front," beside or above the console, then 2 pairs "behind" somewhere behind. Then I would either find your 2 favourite channels, and have them both "cyclical within octaves," or classify the channels as roughly "front" or "behind," and split them up on the "front" or "behind" speakers.

Lots of room for personal preference here though! I wish you the best on your installation.

Thanks for taking the time to give helpful comments that give me even more to consider.

Even though your ears and preferences may be different from mine, what configuration would you (or others out there!) start with, for 6-channel sets, if you had these components to work with? (Not everything has to be used.)

The monitors, btw, are on 45" stands, causing the sound to be blocked a bit by a wide music rack if placed in front of the player.

Thanks again.

Consider doing a front group using the three pairs of Definitive Technology BP 10s. Set up one pair of Definitive Technology BP 8s for the rear surround. Put one pair of Behringer 2031s with the Def Tech sub and route all the front pedal samples to that combination. It would be interesting to try routing any diffuse channels to the remaining Behringer pair rather than to the front group. If I am counting channels right you might need to use the SPDIF outputs of the 18i20 to get that last pair of 2031s connected or use the Yamaha receiver -- unless you can run the pedal group 2031s off the sub's low level outputs.

That's my starting point and similar to what I am doing with my own Scarlett 18i20, 10 Behringer 3031s, and Rythmik Audio sub.

I agree with JKinkennon that his suggested setup is a good starting point. I don't have extensive experience connecting subs, however I agree that whatever setup you have going, it is good to have higher harmonics to support the low fundamentals (Otherwise the low notes sound oddly incomplete). Whether to have this as separate monitors by the sub, or to have the higher harmonics in some of your other monitors is up to you (you could probably have it either way, since lower frequencies sounds tend to bend a lot more, and travel more slowly than higher frequency sounds - so sub positioning usually doesn't make much difference, unless you put the output of the sub directly in front of something that absorbs a lot of bass). My personal preference is not to separate sounds by division, as it seems yours is, and to have all divisions going to all monitors and the subs, but again, personal preference.

Given JKinkennon's starting point, if you didn't want to divide up divisions, for a 6 channel system, you could have all the front channel going to the 6 BP10's (using your amp with 4 channels, and another one with 2 channels), then divide the pipes among them using the cyclical within octaves routing. For the subwoofer, you could just have the 2 front channels mixed down to it, or try having all 6 channels mix down to it (Experiment with both, and see which one sounds better. My instinct is that just the front would be clearer). I would place the sub near the front channels (personal preference). You could then have the 4 behringer 2031's behind you. (2 channels (Far) directly behind, and 2 channels (a recording position between far and front) laterally to the organist or just beside the far monitors, whichever works for setup, and sounds best to your ears). These two pairs could each have a 2 channel amp, or the Yamaha. When assigning channels in HW5, front to front, rear to rear, and an intermediate channel to the lateral. For the 8 channel sets, pick a front perspective that you prefer (usually the drier one vs. the wetter front perspective - I prefer wetter for how it sounds. Drier is better for practicing because you can hear your articulation better, again, personal preference), then the remaining for rear and lateral. For the BP8's, I think it would be tricky to connect them using your current setup, because you are one pair of outputs short. You could connect them and sacrifice one of the front channels, but I don't think it is worth it. You could always buy another interface with more outputs, but that may be too expensive for the minimal gain in audio quality. If you do buy another interface, my preference would be to have the 4 behringers rear, and the BP8's lateral, or just beside them. Looking at the DefTech super cubes online, it doesn't look like any of them has outputs.

For recommended connections then, four focus rite 1/4 inch outputs to the Crown CT4150 (you would need the proper adapter cables from 1/4 inch to the Crown's inputs, which I assume you already have), and two focusrite 1/4 inch outputs to the the Crown XLS 1002 amp (probably to the 1/4 inch Link/out inputs), all these going to the BP10's in front. 2 1/4 inch outputs to the powered subwoofer, placed near the front channels. 2 1/4 inch outputs to the 1/4 inch inputs on the Behringer amp (I believe it's the A500, not A600?) for two Behringer 2031's in the rear, and The SPDIF output going to the Yamaha Receiver, then going to the remaining 2031's laterally or beside the rear.

These are very interesting suggestions--some similar to what I had in mind but also some things I never would have thought to try. I'd better get at it (though I really should be practicing).

Thanks so much.

To clarify my previous post, I do not separate divisions except for the pedal division where I feel it is helpful for the clarity of the front channels to get all of the lower pedal frequencies on their own sub plus a pair of general purpose speakers for the higher overtones. 4' or 2' pedal ranks could be sent to the front speakers and 16' ranks from other divisions could be sent to the pedal channel if desired.

My front channels, 3 pairs, are in a single group for all ranks other than pedal and I experiment with the routing. The biggest help in my opinion is to keep lower pitched ranks off the front speakers to avoid excessive cone excursions and the greater inter-modulation that causes.

I like the idea of putting direct and diffuse ranks into a separate group and set of speakers. I doubt if it's worth the extra expense but having just converted a pair of defective Behringer 3031s to passive mode I may give it a try -- that or go from 3 to 4 pairs in my front group.

As an aside, a XO2W-3.5K crossover from Parts Express did a nice conversion for the 3021s. These are the speaker models with the kevlar cones and ribbon tweeters but would think the same approach would work well with the 2031s. I'll put this pair in the pedal group where any small changes in frequency response will be relatively undetectable.