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Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

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mdyde

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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostSat Feb 11, 2023 1:05 pm

Thanks, Wayne.

If some notes within an octave are sounding but not others then it will almost certainly be the case that, for the group to which that rank is routed, some of the primary buses that you've put within the group don't send their audio to any audio device channels (directly or indirectly), i.e. that you haven't selected audio device channels for those primary buses, or for intermediate mix buses to which you're sending them, if applicable. I.e. some of the primary buses in the group aren't sending audio anywhere. Use the green and red LEDs on the mixer screen to debug.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostSat Feb 11, 2023 1:07 pm

P.S. If I understand correctly what you're hoping to achieve, you probably only want a single primary bus in each group. (Then use the intermediate mix buses to mix them down to your speakers, as in my "method 1" description.)
Best regards, Martin.
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Wayne Grauel

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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostSat Feb 11, 2023 2:16 pm

Understanding the led's is a big help. It tells me things are really screwed up with this program.

I have LED's lighting up mixer groups that aren't in existence and it only plays certain notes up the scale.

Switching to mixer < 1 > and it works

mixer 3 there's nothing. AND I've had two exception code errors.

Almost an entire day on this and I'm at the point where I need to walk away from this and chill out for a while.

I've taken ranks and mixer busses down to the simplest settings on mixer preset 3, after it crapped out earlier ( when I deleted a bunch of mixer bus groups that were way down at in the 100's on the list. they weren't allocated to any mixer bus, but I was getting audio from them. And no ranks were even close. I've made sure that no additional rank perspectives were being sent anywhere. only the initial main selection.
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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostSat Feb 11, 2023 2:19 pm

Martin, I would have done that if I was able to get any audio. Ive been comparing mixer preset 1 and 3 to no avail.
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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostSat Feb 11, 2023 3:10 pm

Hello Wayne,

Sorry to hear you're struggling to get mixer preset 3 to behave how you want it. I'm not clear on a couple of things that you mentioned:

Wayne Grauel wrote:I have LED's lighting up mixer groups that aren't in existenc


On the Groups screen, the LEDs are shown next to the groups in the left-hand list (one per group), so it isn't actually possible for an LED to light up for a non-existent group -- there are no lines in the list that have only LEDs (without groups) -- LEDs only exist for groups.

Wayne Grauel wrote:when I deleted a bunch of mixer bus groups that were way down at in the 100's on the list. they weren't allocated to any mixer bus, but I was getting audio from them


To clarify, it isn't actually possible to delete or insert a group. There are always exactly 1024 of them (per mixer preset) -- for any given group you can only rename it and/or tick/untick primary buses to define whether they're members of it. (There are no Insert or Delete buttons on the screen.)

Rather that try to spend time debugging your existing routing for mixer preset 3, I suggest:

- Reboot the computer, for good measure.

- Launch Hauptwerk but don't load an organ yet.

- Decide on a different preset number which you've definitely never used before (so that it has completely default settings/routing). Let's say that it's mixer preset 4 (or 10, or whatever other number is suitable). (Alternatively, you could use the "General settings | General configuration wizard" with just the "Reset general audio routing settings ..." option ticked, but that would reset *all* mixer presets to defaults, which you might not want.)

- Load St. Anne's, by way of an example (since we all have ready access to that).

- Use "Organ settings | Organ configuration wizard" with just the "Reset rank routing ..." option ticked, so as to reset all the routing for St. Anne's back to its defaults, then click through to complete the wizard.

- Select the clean/default mixer preset (e.g. 4) on the "Audio Mixer, Routing and Voicing/Panning Settings" large control panel.

- Verify that the whole organ is currently sounding just through device channels 1&2, as would be expected for all-default audio routing settings (i.e. to verify that the chosen mixer preset is indeed still all-default).

Then tell us exactly which ranks (or divisions) you want to route to exactly which ones of your speakers (audio device channels). If needed, we can write step-by-step instructions for how to set that up. E.g. you might say something like:

- "I want to route all of the pipes on the Swell division to audio device channels 1&2 (as a stereo pair) at 70% volume, and also route all of them simultaneously to device channels 3&4 (as a stereo pair) at 30%." and
- "I want to route all of the pipes on the Great division to ..." and so on.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Wayne Grauel

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Re: Rank Routing - mixing close front rear, Solved- for now

PostSat Feb 11, 2023 9:14 pm

Martin, when I needed to decompress I shut the computer down. When I came back I had only active close ranks P8' on RP and HW . I reset the MOTU to factory when I rebooted also.

So Far i have those two stops routed and no other extraneous routing and the notes play chromatically.

I can't say for sure what was doing this, but I can say I hope never to re-create the situation. What a relief, believe me.
i have now a note book of screen shots - manual references, and posts from you and others for everything from audio & floating divisions to copying organs ( and combinations ) from HW to Alt HW configurations. After today, I had to get a bigger notebook!

Many thanks for your offer to "spell it out" for me. I don't give up that easily though. If I can use finale, Sonar, and Ableton live I said to myself, I should be able to handle this. "knock on wood"!

I'll work tomorrow after church and hopefully will be self sufficient for a while.

Best Regards to you, Mark, and the others who jumped in to help.

Wayne Grauel
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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostSun Feb 12, 2023 4:42 am

Thanks very much, Wayne. You're very welcome. Glad to hear rebooting everything got rid of the gremlins.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostSun Feb 12, 2023 5:06 pm

Martin,

I want to make sure I'm clear here on the "signal path" so I'm going to attempt a flow chart with text and lines of a simplified speaker setup and fictitious DB settings just to exaggerate the concept.
Please correct me if I'm not seeing this correctly or if there is a better solution.
1.
Close ranks Sw & Rp ------- to Mixer Bus Group label [ Sw - Rp Close ] = "A"
Front ranks Sw & Rp ------- to Mixer Bus Group label [ Sw - Rp Front ] = "B"
Rear Ranks "ALL" ------- to Mixer Bus Group label [ REAR] = "C"

2. mixer set to none select Intermediate mixer bus 1 "Main Front add A = 6db B =3db---------- Send to Master mix 1?
mixer set to none select Intermediate mixer bus 2 Main Side add A = 3db B =6db------------ Send to Master mix 2
mixer set to none select Intermediate mixer bus 3 [ REAR] add C = 4db B = 2 db Send to Master mix 3?

3 Do these go out to audio channels from here? or Is the master mix the final signal path to Audio Interface - where does the signal path go from there? ( if it doesn't look like I have this processed correctly.

I'm at the point where I am getting ready to send these signals to the Intermediate mixer bus - not knowing clearly what lies ahead until I get there. I ask only because I am taking pause to look carefully at the manual.

Perhaps the next user guide could contain some Graphic Flow Charts ( like sent with mixers, etc ) with signal paths.
with Block Diagrams . Screen Shots and paragraph text can be difficult to specifically follow ( for me ).

I hope that makes sense, I "was" also a photographer and Videograher and a musician so some of us tend to be wired left brain and we process information ( way more ) differently. ( and very visually )

I hope that helps with understanding me sometimes just not getting it, which may seem obvious to others. I just thought I'd mention that, so please don't take offense.

To be honest, I commend you on the time you put in to answer tech questions - This alone is a full time job. And you have the "patience of Job" when musicians ( like myself ) get freaked out because we've hit a brick wall and can't figure something out.

thanks Wayne
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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostMon Feb 13, 2023 6:25 am

Thanks, Wayne. No problem -- you're very welcome.

Perhaps one day we can get graphical flow diagrams and the like added to the user guide. I do appreciate that some people would find that helpful.

Regarding your intended routing (if I understand it correctly), here's one example way (my 'method 1') that you could set it up (starting with the bit I wrote previously about starting with an all-default mixer preset, so as to start from a reliable, known state):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Launch Hauptwerk but don't load an organ yet.

- Decide on a different preset number which you've definitely never used before (so that it has completely default settings/routing). Let's say that it's mixer preset 10 (or whatever other number is suitable). (Alternatively, you could use the "General settings | General configuration wizard" with just the "Reset general audio routing settings ..." option ticked, but that would reset *all* mixer presets to defaults, which you might not want.)

- Load the relevant organ.

- Use "Organ settings | Organ configuration wizard" with just the "Reset rank routing ..." option ticked, so as to reset all the routing for the organ back to its defaults, then click through to complete the wizard.

- Select mixer preset 10 on the "Audio Mixer, Routing and Voicing/Panning Settings" large control panel.

- Verify that the whole organ is currently sounding just through device channels 1&2, as would be expected for all-default audio routing settings (i.e. to verify that the chosen mixer preset is indeed still all-default).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- On the "General settings | Audio mixer" screen, close the node in the left-hand browser for mixer preset 1, and expand the node for mixer preset 10. Within that node, configure the buses as follows. (The primary bus numbers are just examples, chosen because they aren't used for anything else within the default settings.):

------ Master mix bus 1 (main/recording):
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = <none>

------ Intermediate mix bus 1:
----------- Name = "Main Front Speakers".
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = 1/2
----------- Un-tick all of the "Sends: to master mix buses" (so that master mix bus 1 can still be used for recording a single stereo mix-down if needed, without receiving duplicate signals from the intermediate mix buses and primary buses).

------ Intermediate mix bus 2:
----------- Name = "Main Side Speakers".
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = 3/4
----------- Un-tick all of the "Sends: to master mix buses".

------ Intermediate mix bus 3:
----------- Name = "Rear Speakers".
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = 5/6
----------- Un-tick all of the "Sends: to master mix buses".

------ Primary bus 20:
----------- Name = "Sw & Rp Close".
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = <none>
----------- Tick "Sends: to intermediate mix buses: 1 'Main Front Speakers'", and set its "Level adjust" = -3 dB.
----------- Tick "Sends: to intermediate mix buses: 2 'Main Side Speakers'", and set its "Level adjust" = -6 dB.
----------- Untick all of the "Sends: to master mix buses".

------ Primary bus 21:
----------- Name = "Sw & Rp Front".
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = <none>
----------- Tick "Sends: to intermediate mix buses: 1 'Main Front Speakers'", and set its "Level adjust" = -6 dB.
----------- Tick "Sends: to intermediate mix buses: 2 'Main Side Speakers'", and set its "Level adjust" = -3 dB.
----------- Tick "Sends: to intermediate mix buses: 3 'Rear Speakers'", and set its "Level adjust" = -8 dB.
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = <none>
----------- Untick all of the "Sends: to master mix buses".

------ Primary bus 22:
----------- Name = "Rear".
----------- Audio output device channels: Channels = <none>
----------- Tick "Sends: to intermediate mix buses: 3 'Rear Speakers'", and set its "Level adjust" = -4 dB.
----------- Untick all of the "Sends: to master mix buses".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- On the "General settings | Audio mixer bus groups" screen, close the node in the left-hand browser for mixer preset 1, and expand the node for mixer preset 10. Within that node, configure the groups as follows. (The group bus numbers are just examples, also chosen because they aren't used for anything else within the default settings.):

------ Group 20:
----------- Name = "Sw & Rp Close".
----------- Buses ticked (and no others): "0020 'Sw & Rp Close'".

------ Group 21:
----------- Name = "Sw & Rp Front".
----------- Buses ticked (and no others): "0021 'Sw & Rp Front'".

------ Group 22:
----------- Name = "Rear".
----------- Buses ticked (and no others): "0022 'Sw & Rp Rear'".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Now go to the "Organ settings | Rank routing ..." screen and use each rank's "Rank output perspective 1: Destination mixer bus group[" setting to route the rank to the desired one of the groups, i.e. to one of the following:
------ "Group 0020 'Sw & Rp Close'", or:
------ "Group 0021 'Sw & Rp Front'", or:
------ "Group 0022 'Rear'".
(Note that you can highlight multiple ranks at once on this screen, to change their settings simultaneously.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The key thing to note above is that you're implementing your desired mixing 'matrix' by using the primary mixer buses' "Sends: to intermediate mix buses" settings, just like you would use the aux send knobs on a physical mixing desk to send buses in varying ratios to an external effects processor, for example.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Wayne Grauel

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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostMon Feb 13, 2023 8:58 am

Martin. Thank you for The detailed procedure. I'll work on this when I get back to the studio and report back.

Wayne
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Re: Rank Routing - Then mixing close, front and rear

PostMon Feb 13, 2023 9:02 am

Thanks. You're very welcome. Hope it helps.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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