It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:08 pm


DIY Speaker project

Speakers, amplifiers, headphones, multi-channel audio, reverb units, mixers, wiring, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

bcollins

Member

  • Posts: 837
  • Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:09 pm
  • Location: USA, WA, Spokane

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSat Jun 13, 2009 8:51 pm

I was hoping you' (all) would give me your impressions of which sound better /best, etc.
Since all our equipment will color the results, it would be interesting to hear from multiple people and see if there is a trend.
I will say that I may have gotten a little over-zealous by increasing the amplitude to -6dB on each recording, when originally each was more like -12dB.

And even though I have the benefit of listening to the files on the Korg with some Sennheiser headphones, the original recordings sound so much better than the modified ones.

So I plan to create a web page with all the files, unmodified, but perhaps in 24-bit / 48KHz - soon. I made recordings of Harmonic Flute 8, Gamba 8, and French Horn 8 as well. But it is the Diapasons I am most concerned about at this point.
Bob Collins
Offline

cknight

Member

  • Posts: 239
  • Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:37 am
  • Location: USA, NC, Apex

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSat Jun 13, 2009 8:58 pm

3 & 4 sound much brighter and more detailed to me, using headphones. 1 & 5 are awfully muddy. Are you going to tell us which speakers the files are from?
Clinton Knight
Apex, NC, USA
http://ambassadororgan.wordpress.com/
Offline
User avatar

bcollins

Member

  • Posts: 837
  • Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:09 pm
  • Location: USA, WA, Spokane

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSat Jun 13, 2009 9:39 pm

Yes, when I post a web page with all the files in 24/48, I'll specify what is what.

Interestingly, when I open these files in Sound Forge they are much clearer than when I simply play them with Windows Media Player. Curious... since they are the same files, through the same sound card, on the same headphones.

Clinton, your impressions are at odds with the impressions of another who emailed me privately. However, both of you agree that Test1 is unfavorable.

Personally my least favorite is Test3. Humm...
Bob Collins
Offline

Eric Sagmuller

Member

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:18 pm
  • Location: Bellefonte, PA USA

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSat Jun 13, 2009 9:43 pm

I'm just using computer speakers at this point. To me 1 and 4 sound the best, 3 a little more nasal. 2 and 5 being the worst, very nasal with poor detail.
Offline

Eric Sagmuller

Member

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:18 pm
  • Location: Bellefonte, PA USA

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSat Jun 13, 2009 9:49 pm

Thinking about it, these computer speakers always did seem to color the sound somewhat towards the nasal sound. I would be interested to try and play them on my Koss hi fi speakers that really sound quite good on the organ, quite neutral and detailed.
Offline

cknight

Member

  • Posts: 239
  • Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:37 am
  • Location: USA, NC, Apex

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSat Jun 13, 2009 9:51 pm

Yeah, Eric, I like #4 the best.

Bob, this exercise may be useful for weeding out the worst choices, but it still seems kinda subjective. I suggest you use HW's recording facility to include your actual dry samples in the list as a standard, and then compare the speaker recordings against that.
Clinton Knight
Apex, NC, USA
http://ambassadororgan.wordpress.com/
Offline
User avatar

bcollins

Member

  • Posts: 837
  • Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:09 pm
  • Location: USA, WA, Spokane

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSun Jun 14, 2009 1:14 am

I've gone through all the recordings and resaved them - this time with a minimal amount of amplitude adjustment - in 24-bit, 48KHz format. Each file is about 20MB.

Rather than create a webpage with a bunch of links and explanations, I simply made the directory indexed. So if you go to http://zionorgan.com/HWForumImages/SpeakerTest it will display all the files.

The file names are fairly self-explanatory. For example the file AllenHC12_Diap_2Part_2448.wav is a recording of the 8' Diapason, 2 parts played (Bass and Soprano), through the Allen HC12 speakers.

Diap = Great 2nd Diapason 8'
HF = Harmonic Flute 8'
FHorn = French Horn 8'
Bob Collins
Offline

Eric Sagmuller

Member

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:18 pm
  • Location: Bellefonte, PA USA

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSun Jun 14, 2009 5:51 am

I tried to play two of the files and they won't run. The player shows the total time but it never starts to count down. Yesterdays files work fine though.

So far the only way I've figured out to get the player to access them is to download the file first, then open the player and play it from there. I had been using Quicktime for MP3 which is nice because I can just click on the file and the player will open and play it without having to download it first. Actually what it does is starts to download the file and once it has a small buffer starts to play while the download continues ahead of the data needed to play the music.
Offline
User avatar

bcollins

Member

  • Posts: 837
  • Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:09 pm
  • Location: USA, WA, Spokane

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSun Jun 14, 2009 9:58 am

Eric Sagmuller wrote:So far the only way I've figured out to get the player to access them is to download the file first, then open the player and play it from there...


Eric, with files this large, that probably is the best way. Also, you're probably going to want to get these burned to a CD, so you can listen to them on a good hi-fi system. The real test for me is usually to take the CD over to a friends and listen to them on his vintage Klipsch Cornwall speakers.

Be aware though some CD burning software can't handle 24-bit 48KHz wav files
Bob Collins
Offline

Eric Sagmuller

Member

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:18 pm
  • Location: Bellefonte, PA USA

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSun Jun 14, 2009 11:02 am

I have a CD burner on my computer here but never tried to use it. If I have time I'll play around with it.
Offline

GrahamH

Member

  • Posts: 618
  • Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:39 am
  • Location: Near Manchester, England

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSun Jun 14, 2009 1:34 pm

Hi Bob

I auditioned only the Diap_4Part_2448.wavs, first through headphones, then through my organ speakers. Either way I liked the Behringer best and the Eminence-Behringer & EminenceB12 least. I thought there was a harshness about the two Eminence demos.
I thought the Mains wasn't bad, and I didn't dislike the AllenHC but it doesn't "belong" with the other demos - it sounds more distant - as if it was recorded in a different acoustic, or as if some reverb has been added.

Graham
Offline
User avatar

bcollins

Member

  • Posts: 837
  • Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:09 pm
  • Location: USA, WA, Spokane

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostSun Jun 14, 2009 5:02 pm

I'm curious what the effect of mounting the Eminence Beta 12 lta 's in a sealed 1.8 ft3 enclosure will be - rather than in the "infinite baffle" situation they are in now.

There are a number of suggestion for these drivers here:
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/afterburner/Afterburner.html

Such as painting the cone(s) with dammer paint - "at least four of five VERY THIN coats to the Whizzer, apply two coats to the cone for starters"

Taking some foam which is intended for air conditioner filters and adhere it to the rear side of the Wizzer cone covering most of the Whizzer

And as David P suggested, removing the dust cover and replacing it with a phase plug

All of these measures - supposedly - are to reduce the "shouty" sound.

EDIT:
One more thing: I have read, "It is imperative that full-range paper drivers be broken in for a considerable length of time prior to any critical listening. A minimum time period of 50 hours should give the cone and suspension an adequate work out."

these recordings were done with the Eminence drivers practically right out of the box. On the other hand, the Conn CTS full-range drivers have been in service since 1964!
Bob Collins
Offline
User avatar

bcollins

Member

  • Posts: 837
  • Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:09 pm
  • Location: USA, WA, Spokane

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostMon Jun 15, 2009 3:58 pm

Update:

First let me say I don't fully understand most of this electric network stuff (resitors, capacitors and such) - but I just ordered the necessay parts to try a "Zobel Circuit" which supposedly will help with the rapidly rising amplitude in the high frequencies starting at 1000 Hz.

Cost was $20 from partsexpress.com

However, I passed for now on the "notch filter" which as I understand it would have taken out the spikes at 1KHz and 1.5KHz. Cost for those parts would have put my total at $170.

Since I can simply buy an addition pair of Behringer B2031P studio monitor for about that, and since everybody seems to favor the recordings of the Behringers, I'm not inclined to sink that much money into circuitry.

But since I now own the drivers I'll at least try the following ideas and then make some new recordings:

Addition of the Zobel network
Painting cones with dammer
Remove dust cover / Replace with phase plug
Break in the drivers
Mount drivers in a sealed enclosure
Bob Collins
Offline
User avatar

David Pinnegar

Member

  • Posts: 437
  • Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:13 pm
  • Location: Sussex UK

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostWed Jun 17, 2009 5:38 pm

bcollins wrote:Taking some foam which is intended for air conditioner filters and adhere it to the rear side of the Wizzer cone covering most of the Whizzer
And as David P suggested, removing the dust cover and replacing it with a phase plug
All of these measures - supposedly - are to reduce the "shouty" sound.

EDIT:
One more thing: I have read, "It is imperative that full-range paper drivers be broken in for a considerable length of time prior to any critical listening. A minimum time period of 50 hours should give the cone and suspension an adequate work out."

these recordings were done with the Eminence drivers practically right out of the box. On the other hand, the Conn CTS full-range drivers have been in service since 1964!


Hi!

Yes - you're on the right lines. Until I blew it up with a rogue signal I used a Lowther PM2C for my Tuba stop. The slight shouty sound was ideal - but i modified it with a strip of cotton wool around the back of the whizzer cone, and a lump of cotton wool on the "nose" of the phase plug. Really superb.

But I would not worry about high frequency raggedness. In a pipe chamber there are so many interactions between pipes, so much diffraction, that the frequencies are not coming out of a pipe organ in an even manner.

"Running in" of full range units is vital. I have been using a pair of Lowther PM2Cs in Acousta cabinets now for 10 years. I should be using PM6C but like the extra detail of the PM2 - it's wonderful for baroque, brilliant for sax and jazz and altogether gives a hair standing up on the back of the neck realism. But at first they were hard and brittle in sound, especially on a violin, but are now really amazing. An additional joy of these speakers is to be able to reproduce an orchestra, outside, on no more than 30W RMS, 60W peak.

For your 8 and 4ft Diapasons I doubt if anything can compete with a full range unit.

Certainly also, you are right in using different speakers for different stops. I met an old member of the EOCS - Electronic Organ Constructors Society - who said that he had had good experience of using a variety of disparate units - he says that if you use different units it sounds like an organ - if you use the same units, it sounds like an organ through speakers.

Best wishes

David P
http://www.organmatters.co.uk
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
Offline

Eric Sagmuller

Member

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:18 pm
  • Location: Bellefonte, PA USA

Re: DIY Speaker project

PostWed Jun 17, 2009 6:37 pm

Has anyone else had troubles playing the wave files from Bob's website? The first ones he listed on here work fine but the later ones just keep giving me an error. I tried two free .wav players and windows media player but non of them will play the second listing of files from Sunday morning.
PreviousNext

Return to Amplification

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests