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Audio System update at Zion

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bcollins

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Audio System update at Zion

PostSun Jan 31, 2010 12:26 am

New 3-manual console at Zion begets a new 4 division ODF, which begets an update to the audio system.
So, I present to you the latest iteration of the audio system at Zion, in preparation for the new console:

Audio System:

Great: Six channels / 12 ranks

6-speaker output group: (64Hz-20KHz)
 (6) Behringer B2031A 225-watt active studio monitors *

*Great 16’ Double Open Diapason routed to Swell/Choir speaker group

Pedal, Swell, and Choir: Ten channels / 42 ranks

2-speaker output group (16Hz-20KHz)
 Behringer CX3400 3-way active crossover
 16Hz-80Hz -> NADY XA-1600 amplifier (Bridged,1600watts@4ohms) – (2) 18” 400-watt full-range woofers - and
32Hz-80Hz -> Behringer Truth B2092A Powered Subwoofer, in parallel
 80Hz-3.5KHz -> Behringer A500 amplifier (2X160watts@8ohms) – (2) Eminence Beta-12LTA full-range
 3.5KHZ-20Kz -> Behringer A500 amplifier (2X230watts@4ohms) – (2) Infinity 9623i 3-way 6”X9”

4-speaker output group (32Hz-20KHz)
 (2) Behringer CX2310 2-way active crossover
 32Hz-1.2KHz -> (2) Behringer A500 amplifier (2X175 watts@8ohms) – (4) 15” full-range woofers
 1.2KHz-20KHz -> (2) NADY SRA-2150 amplifier (2x150watts@4ohms) – (4) Infinity 9623i 3-way 6”X9”

4-speaker output group (64Hz-20KHz)
 (4) Behringer A500 amplifier (Bridged,500watts@8ohms) – (8) Behringer B2031P passive studio monitors*

*Each channel = (2) B2031P wired in series @ 8ohms
Bob Collins
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Re: Audio System update at Zion

PostSun Jan 31, 2010 1:30 am

As you can see, there is still no MOTU 24io. I wanted to buy Gerald Cluff's, but almost $5000 has been put into the new console and there are no spare nickels.

So instead of adding more channels, I've been concentrating on upgrading the speakers - adding more Behringer B2031A and B2031P sets - and eliminated all the old "Conn Pipe Speakers" and the old Allen HC-12 pair which are very muddy.

As you may also notice, there are 6 channels that handle 16' pipes with ease. So the load on the Pedal is spread out quite nicely. If I bought one more Behringer sub-woofer I could add 16' capability to all 10 channels in the swell chamber. But I need the added sub running parallel with the two 18" woofers because I lose so much energy on the backside of the infinite baffle that there is not enough presence in the nave without rattling all the light fixtures in the fellowship hall. The added sub-woofer in the chamber brings the 32Hz octave to life.

Some of you may also remember my experiment with the Eminence Beta-12LTA 12" full-range speakers. It took a while to figure out exactly where in the mix to make these work. The answer I came up with was right in the middle...

The middle of a tri-amped 2-speaker system with 3-way active crossover. The primary purpose of this very special speaker group is to handle two ranks; the 32' Untersatz and the Choir Tuba Mirabilis 8.

For this I needed a system capable of a lot of power in the 16Hz - 200Hz range, but also a lot of power for the uppermost harmonics right up to A6.
Bob Collins
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toplayer2

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Re: Audio System update at Zion

PostSun Jan 31, 2010 11:06 am

bcollins wrote:So instead of adding more channels, I've been concentrating on upgrading the speakers - adding more Behringer B2031A and B2031P sets - and eliminated all the old "Conn Pipe Speakers" and the old Allen HC-12 pair which are very muddy.


Bob,

You are making a very smart decision to abandon the old highly inaccurate speakers. A frugal alternative to the 24io or multiple Echo Audiofire 12s would be multiple M-Audio 1010LT cards. I am currently using three for a total of 24 analog and 6 digital outputs. The sound quality is quite respectable, IMHO. One caveat is that the PC must have the requisite number of PCI (not PCIe) slots. The last one I purchased was a new one on eBay for $110.

Joe
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David Pinnegar

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Re: Audio System update at Zion

PostSun Jan 31, 2010 12:41 pm

Dear Bob

I reckon that you could do significantly better with your 4 speaker output group than you are. It's too much like hi-fi to sound really "there". Please PM me if you like.

Best wishes

David P
http://www.organmatters.co.uk
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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bcollins

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Re: Audio System update at Zion

PostSun Jan 31, 2010 2:04 pm

Which “4-speaker output group” do you mean David? I have two.

#2 - is four pairs of Behringer Truth B2031P passive studio monitors.
Each channel has (2) wired in series - (300 watts, SPL 89dB (1W/1m) @ 8 Ohms).
Each channel is driven by one Behringer A500 studio reference amp in bridged mono mode – (500 watts @ 8 Ohms)

#1 – are these cabinets I built over the summer using some ancient Peavey PA cabinets I bought from another church for $25.

Image

The cabinets are set up for bi-amping with separate binding posts for LF and HF.
The woofers are 15” CTS “Conn Organ Speakers” left over from the original Conn organ installation. The manufacture codes indicate they are from the mid to late 1960’s. They still have plenty of life left, but they are very muddy sounding.
The HF drivers are Infinity Reference 9623i 3-way 6”X9” “car audio” speakers. I know, it sounds crazy, but has anyone ever tried these? They are outstanding!

I bought two pair off Ebay a couple years back on a whim. Originally I mounted them in the old baffles, unenclosed, and found that I needed to wire two of them in series to get enough response out of them without distortion. But now that I have them in a ported cabinet, one alone handles everything I need to throw at it.

I’ve experimented with some different cross-over points (the beauty of using active crossovers).
The lower I set the crossover the better they sound – because the Infinity speakers are then handling more of the load - but they won’t handle as much power.
If I set the crossover higher (the CTS are flat up to about 4KHz) they are muddy. So until I can replace the 15” woofers, 1.2KHz seems to be the sweet spot.

In the future, I’m hoping to replace the 15” woofers with something like these:
Goldwood GW-15090 15" Select Series PA Woofer
Bob Collins
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Re: Audio System update at Zion

PostSun Jan 31, 2010 2:34 pm

Just to review... as there are many new forum members, and I haven't posted much for quite a while...

The Great - speaker group (6 channels, 6 Behringer B2031A) are in the room, sitting on top of the platform of the casework for the future Great wind-blown pipes. See:
Image
(I really should take a new picture, as everything is now painted properly)

The Pedal,Swell, and Choir - speaker groups are all in the organ chamber - directly behind/below the casework. See:
Image

These pictures are old. I promise new ones - with equipment/speakers in a couple weeks.

In the meantime I have variety of choices for things to do, stripping, sanding, soldering, on the new console - or working on the new ODF.
Bob Collins
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David Pinnegar

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Re: Audio System update at Zion

PostMon Feb 01, 2010 7:24 pm

Dear Bob

THanks for posting pics. Oh my! This is a hifi fun project and a half . . .

Your email hit the nail on the head - those speakers which sounded muddy. If they sound muddy, keep them in the mud and don't let them go near above 100Hz . . . Find something else that sounds clean and then you'll hear through fresh air rather than through a wall . . .

Best wishes

David P
http://www.organmatters.co.uk
David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.

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