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Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:38 pm
by Jim Reid
Decision time, have read through the sub-woofer thread,
in particular the many supporting comments about Supercubes.

I believe the SC l would be ideal for me. At present I am using,
just about exclusively. a pair of Klipschorn speakers, stereo,
one at either end of my old MIDI'd Allen console. But, the
K-horns are not too good in the low bass. The horn begins to decouple
from the cone of the 15" driver around F,G of the 16' octave; that
is just under 50 Hz or so. And adds no bass reinforcement below
D of that octave, so the driver is on its own for 16 more notes on
down to 32' C at 16.35 Hz. Not pleasing at all. And my K701 headphones
nor many, old Allen speakers do any better really.

I principally use four HW sample sets: Trost and Bosch-Schnitger,
MDA Willis, and the Caen Cavaille'-Coll. Have, but seldom load
the Brussels Notre-Dame de Lakenm, Haverhill OIC and the Casavant.
For fun, every now/then, the Paramount 320. Some of these sets
do include 32' stops.

I have found the SC l on eBay, at various prices, both auction style
and buy-it-now; my problem is the cost of shipping out here to
Kauai -- about $275 via UPS or Fed Ex. USPS will not accept the packed
weight of the unit, even via ocean container; just too heavy for the postal
workers to be asked to handle.

Am about ready to take the plunge; should I ? Your thoughts.

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:22 pm
by kwsmith15

Having a quality subwoofer makes a big difference in how the organ sounds, though it takes some time to tune it. I have a DefTech (albeit a bigger one than you're contemplating), and it's great.

I'm speaking entirely subjectively here. I haven't measured anything, though some day I will, once everything is moved into a reasonably "final" position.


Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:55 pm
by Jim Reid
Ken, I have a bid placed on an SC l on eBay. If I fail with this
rather low bid, should I seriously consider doing a "Buy-it now"
at eBay on the next larger unit, the Reference with 14"
"cones" rather than the 10" of the SC l ? Cost would be
about $300 more, shipped, above the SC l cost, my guess.

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:13 pm
by kwsmith15

I'm the wrong guy to ask. While I'm not interested in playing at great volume, I'm very interested in playing at high quality. In my opinion, a strong, smooth subwoofer is necessary to get to that result. So I have a clear bias towards the more capable unit.

Having said that, I'd consider two issues, both of which are highly subjective: :

    What is the range of your hearing? I know you're aware it narrows with age, and high quality deep tones may simply be less important to you than they would have been 10 or 20 years ago. You have to form that judgment.

    Since shipping costs so much, I'd tend to opt for the more expensive of the two units since otherwise the cost of the unit itself seems too low relative to the shipping costs. But this is a subjective "utility of money" issue, and again, you have to form your own judgment on the utility of money.
I've read essentially all of the amplification section of the forum, and I have read very positive impressions of the Def Tech SC I. Solely on a reputational basis, it seems a good choice.

I know I'm very happy with my Def Tech Reference Subwoofer, but that's considerably more expensive that what you're considering.

Good luck!


Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:45 pm
by toplayer2

I agree with Ken that the difference of $300 would be well worthwhile. The Rference will provide more power in the very deep bass. As you know, I have a Trinity, which is essentially two SC Reference in one (extremely heavy) box. I am very happy with the decision to purchase this unit.


Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm
by Jim Reid
Hmmm, thanks for responses and advice. Must think about this now:
the fellow with the Reference unit just increased the price!

Now the difference between the two units is $500.00.
His is a factory referb unit, however. Lower cost one
has been in a home for some time; cannot
imagine such wearing, but it could have more
surface finish blems. $500 could probably go
toward the cost of completing the MDA Willis
later on.

Auction on the SC l ends just after 9 AM tomorrow
HST. Will probably just wait to see what happens
over the last 30 minutes tomorrow. My low bid
is the only one so far, but that often means nothing.
The seller tells me has has answered many others questions,
and has 30+ "watchers" as eBay calls them. One or
more of them will almost certainly come in with some
winning offer during the last minute or two. Has
happened before to me at that last instant, I get
"The item has sold" but not to me. If that
occurs, I will proceed to buy the Reference.

Should you want to watch, it is eBay item: ... :MEBIDX:IT

If interested, note the time of the close: 12:03:31 PDT

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:06 pm
by organtechnology

If the Klipsch speakers are corner horns they require the two walls of a corner to realize the frequencies down around 32Hz. Below 32Hz they are of no use. If they are not corner horns then please ignore the above.

I also note that the K701s do not produce sufficient bass in your opinion. This leads me to believe that your ears may be the culprit in this case. My K701 ARE my sub woofer. I can clearly hear the 32 foot lower notes in my K701s. I do not feel them like I would with a sub-woofer but I can hear them.

One other thought. Have you considered buying some really good drivers and getting a local cabinet man to build a 'House Wrecker' sub-woofer. They are reputed to work well and that would save on the freight.



Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:30 pm
by Jim Reid
Yes Thomas, I can hear the notes via the headphones, but has no real
body -- maybe problem is my 76 year old ears, or brain set up!

My K-horns are in corners, made by a carpenter for me per Paul Klipsch's
instructions to me many years ago -- bought them from him back in '73.

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:47 pm
by Jim Reid
Retracted, removed, my bid on the SC l . Must think more
about this.

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:53 pm
by Jim Reid
Just learned the Reference difference is now only $350,
not $500. That is OK, so will almost certainly go with
that purchase and not the SC l based upon the various
comments given, and thanks to all.

Now, to determine the best place to put it.
Probably beside one of the K-horns, or maybe
behind the console?

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:03 am
by pat17
Jim, positioning a subwoofer is a delicate exercise. With the long sound waves it produces, it's really difficult to predict where it will sound best, especially as your room natural accoustics will also play a part in the final result.

Usually the recommendation is... to try to place it again and again.

Start with the best position you can think of (which is usually based on how it looks in the room), and then try to change it in all directions. If after you move it it sounds better, the original location was not the optimal one, and you have to think of another compromise of best location / best sound. If you gain no sound improvement by moving it, you are lucky enough to have found the ideal location from the beginning!

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:56 am
by micdev

Happy to see that you got some "spending money" back :wink:

A sub is an important component of the organ sound, providing the solid foundation for the 16' & 32' ranks and the lower section of the 8' ranks; properly setting the crossover point and voicing (amplitude) of the lower 1 or 2 octave of the 8' ranks will be critical.

While Trinity, Reference and SCI are great subs, I'm wondering if in a house setup so powerful subs are needed. In the installation I did in the Pompei church, the SC-I is filling (and sometimes over-filling) the church; the pipe room rattling and shaking. I had the chance to try tie SC-I in my music room and honestly, didn't hear that must of a difference compare to my SCI.. the level knob was set lower, and I had more problem finding the "right level" than with my SCIII.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the SCIII is as good as the SCI, REF or Trinity, but in my home set-up, the extra $$$ doesn't really worth it, and in your home it might get different results. My tiny SCIII is more than enough for my music room (and could easily fill a must larger room); while the other models will go a little "deeper", keep in mind that at extreme low freq , the room will have greatly influence the final result. The wavelength of a the lower C with a 32' rank is 70.6 feet (21.5 meters)... so based on where the sub is, where you are in relation to the sub etc, you may not hear that note (even if the sub produce it).

If you can get a Ref or SCI for a good price I guess that's ok, but don't go over the top... keep some money for some upcoming sample sets (St-Maximin, Salisbury Vol. 2-3)...

My 2 cents

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:15 pm
by Jim Reid
micdev wrote,

"Happy to see that you got some "spending money" back".

Yes from selling away some seldom used sample sets.

Very interesting, your comment about adjusting the lower
1 or 2 octaves of the 8' ranks with the coming sub! Had
not occured to me such might be possible; as you suggest,
will be a very interesting blending issue.

New sub to be shipped Monday, I suppose; should
be out here by mid-week following at the latest.

Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:01 pm
by pwhodges
pat17 wrote:Usually the recommendation is... to try to place it again and again.

It may be easier for you to do it the other way round; put the subwoofer where your head will be when listening/playing, then crawl around the floor in the areas where you might want to place it until you hear it best. Then put the subwoofer there. Reciprocity rules!


Re: Definitive Tec Supercube l

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:58 pm
by Jim Reid

An excellent suggestion! Will certainly do it--reciprocity
does work; drummed into me in school, oh so long ago.

One small issue: the sub weighs 97 pounds..........