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Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

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Magister85

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Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostFri Jul 15, 2011 8:56 am

Hello, has for some time that I'm trying to play with Hauptwerk within my church, and I need advice to take this project forward. I would like advice on everything. I have a base from which:
1) 8 gb ram notebook
2) Samples hinsz Kampen vol 2 (I use it with the truncation of the reverb)
3) Def Tech SuperCube 1 (I can not tell if the church or should I just buy a bigger one. The thing that puzzles me is that if you increase the volume beyond the 25% you feel very bad sound)
4) RME Fireface UC suond multichannel card usb
5) Two Mackie 824 mk2 active monitors.

Maybe for a cathedral is a little bit, but I would like to know if the road is the right one that I have undertaken, or if I should switch to another kind of speakers ... Actived or passive ..

I hope that you take to heart my project ..
thanks

Giuseppe
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Magister85

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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostTue Jul 19, 2011 4:39 am

Is anybody able to help me? I'd like to complete my project, it would be very frustating to leave it incomplete
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mdyde

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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostTue Jul 19, 2011 7:31 am

Hello Magister85,

1) 8 gb ram notebook
2) Samples hinsz Kampen vol 2 (I use it with the truncation of the reverb)


Assuming that the notebook has sufficient processing power, and meets our perquisites, then that sounds fine.

The MDA Hinsz Bovenkerk Kampen Volume 2 sample set should easily be able to load within 8 GB of physical memory in 16-bit (compressed).

The sample set is quite 'wet', and truncated releases can only partly make a wet sample set seem 'drier' (for example, because the real organ's acoustic will have been recorded into the attack/sustain portions of the samples as well as the releases). Hence my personal preference for use within a reverberant space might be to go for a sample set that's naturally fairly dry (or 'semi-dry'), but if the Hinsz sounds good with truncated releases within your particular building, then that's fine.

4) RME Fireface UC suond multichannel card usb


That isn't an audio interface that we've tested or have any feedback on, but RME's products are usually excellent, so I wouldn't anticipate any problems there.

3) Def Tech SuperCube 1 (I can not tell if the church or should I just buy a bigger one. The thing that puzzles me is that if you increase the volume beyond the 25% you feel very bad sound)
...
5) Two Mackie 824 mk2 active monitors.


I'm not an expert on speakers, so I'll leave other forum members to comment on those, although I understand that they're highly-regarded speakers amongst Hauptwerk users.

Perhaps if you give some more details on the building (size, reverb time, shape, etc.) people will be better able to make useful suggestions.

My general suggestion would be that I would guess that you might need more than a single pair of speakers for a building of moderate size or larger. More speakers also allow you to use multi-channel audio, distributing the virtual pipework around within the real building and thus making it appear to fit more more naturally into the natural acoustic of the room.

With just a single pair of speakers all of the pipe sound will appear to emanate from a single point in space, whereas each pipe in a real pipe organ speaks from a slightly different point in space, giving it perceived clarity, separation and direction. Using more speakers gets closer to that.

Hope that helps to some degree.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostTue Jul 19, 2011 7:47 am

Yes, I understand what you say, I want to buy other speakers. In fact I have a doubt .. Buy or take any active speakers amplifier and passive speakers .. I would like advice on the speakers, but do not tell me the best are the ones I like best, because where I live, unfortunately I do not have the chance to try them ..

I would understand if you should change the subwoofer trinity SuperCube 1 with the model. I fear that the Trinity produces a lot of vibration and highly reverberant environment.


Then I want to know about the polyphony: I can increase and decrease polyphony settings panel, but I can not hear any difference ... If I put it to 256 10000 or feel the same thing ... Can you give me some explanation?
thanks
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostTue Jul 19, 2011 8:08 am

Then I want to know about the polyphony: I can increase and decrease polyphony settings panel, but I can not hear any difference ... If I put it to 256 10000 or feel the same thing ... Can you give me some explanation?
thanks


Have a look at the following sections in the Hauptwerk v4.0.0 user guide, which cover the polyphony limit setting, and how to set it optimally:

- 'The Audio, MIDI and Performance large control panel' (pages 127-128).
- 'Performance tuning: Determining and limiting polyphony' (pages 278-282)
- 'Performance tuning: Summary: quick guidelines for troubleshooting audio or performance problems' (page 283).
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostThu Jul 21, 2011 9:21 am

Maybe my computer is not working well. I followed the instructions, my polyphony is thus about 4000 setting to 1952, and the control light turns on polyphony, but if forced to 10,000 never lights up. but I do not understand is that by setting the polyphony to 4000 or 1952 I think the sound the same ... And 'possible?
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostThu Jul 21, 2011 11:42 am

Hello Magister85,

That sounds fine.

Here's another document that explains polyphony and the purpose of the polyphony limit setting in general:

http://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads/documentation/PDF/TechnicalData.pdf

In particular:

Hauptwerk has an advanced 'polyphony management' system, which allows you to specify the maximum polyphony that your computer hardware can achieve after testing it initially. When Hauptwerk reaches that limit, no more pipes are allowed to sound, preventing the system becoming overloaded and the audio breaking up (very important for live recitals!). A little before the limit is reached, Hauptwerk attempts to fade out some of the most inconspicuous release samples, so that even reaching the polyphony limit is extremely rare. In practice this means that you can choose your computer hardware to support the polyphony that you will need for average playing, and let Hauptwerk's polyphony management system handle extreme loads safely, usually with no audible loss of quality.


Here's the excerpt from the user guide (page 127) that covers what the real-time polyphony meter shows, and how the polyphony limit setting is used:

Polyphony - The meter shows the number of voices/pipes sounding, as a fraction of your polyphony limit setting. If it's going into the red then some release are being faded/dropped.

Limit - The buttons adjust the polyphony limit setting in increments of 32 (single arrow) or 256 (double arrow) voices. Make sure the polyphony limit is set low enough that the CPU meter doesn't go into the red (which indicates a risk of audio glitches) but no lower than needed, so that pipes aren't faded out/dropped (indicated by the Polyphony meter going into the red) more than necessary.


In particular, the polyphony meter shows the amount of pipes that are playing as a fraction of your polyphony limit setting.

setting to 1952, and the control light turns on polyphony, but if forced to 10,000 never lights up.


Hence if you raise the polyphony limit setting then when you play any given number of pipes less bars would be expected to light up on the polyphony meter (because it will be a smaller fraction), which is correct.

I followed the instructions, my polyphony is thus about 4000 setting to 1952


If you measured a static polyphony of about 4000 using the polyphony testing organ then I'd recommend setting the polyphony limit to about 4000 x 0.35 = 1400 to start with.

If needed, you can then fine-tune it. Here's the excerpt from the user guide that covers how to do that (page 283):

- If the CPU meter is showing red then
...
use the adjustment buttons to reduce the polyphony limit on the control panel to lower the limit.

- The Polyphony meter going into the red doesn't necessarily indicate a severe problem, but the organ will sound 'drier' than it should, due to release samples being faded out. You can try increasing the polyphony limit, provided that the CPU meter doesn't go into the red. Beyond that you will either need to disable some audio engine realism options, or get a more powerful computer.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostFri Jul 22, 2011 3:56 am

Hauptwerk could advise people who have used the church? The speakers in my church will be 30 meters away from where the sound, and therefore from the PC and the sound card. Using cables so long you lose clarity or sound quality? Then someone can tell me how to work a configuration with passive speakers? must come to the amplifier output signals of all that I use only 1 output, or just the amp and then sends output to many speakers?
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostFri Jul 22, 2011 7:47 am

Magister85 wrote:Hauptwerk could advise people who have used the church? The speakers in my church will be 30 meters away from where the sound, and therefore from the PC and the sound card. Using cables so long you lose clarity or sound quality? Then someone can tell me how to work a configuration with passive speakers? must come to the amplifier output signals of all that I use only 1 output, or just the amp and then sends output to many speakers?


I'm afraid we aren't able to recommend anyone in your area for consulting on the speaker arrangement. You may need to contact some local sound production companies if need be.

For multi-channel audio using passive speakers you would need to have multiple outputs (cables) from the computer sound card going to the amplifier, then the amplifier would route via speaker wire to the speakers. Thus a multi-channel audio interface is required. You can view some recommendations of ours at www.hauptwerk.com/requirements, then click the PDF links near the top to view interfaces that we've tested with.
Brett Milan
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MILAN DIGITAL AUDIO
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elia

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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostSat Jul 23, 2011 4:44 pm

Ciao Giuseppe,
you can also try the dry samples (1966-casavant-fr-res best price for quality and free public use license... http://www.hauptwerk.com/instruments/ex ... nt-fr-res/ )
Remember also that the Hauptwerk license costs twice for public installations! (840 euro for multi audio channels)

In short, the sound is the most important thing.
The work is long and depends on many factors. You should set the work in a scalable manner for at least the important things (sound system for example). If you had to use many audio channels then I will recommend the Echo AudioFire 12 (great price for value and great scalability).
Consider also the Definitive Technology BP10B bipolar speaker for their immersive sound radiation...
http://www.definitivetech.com/Products/ ... ctid=BP10B
I am Italian and at the end of this year I should do the same thing ...
Good luck... :D
Elia
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostSat Jul 23, 2011 7:49 pm

The space you describe sounds like an ideal candidate for active monitors. If nothing else than the high cost of copper conductors to get sufficient energy to the speakers vs balanced audio conductors to get the minmal signal required to active monitors.

Bob
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Re: Progetto Hauptwerk Cattedrale di Acireale

PostFri Aug 19, 2011 9:27 am

Fingendo che io volessi partire da 0.
Voglio che chiunque entri nella mia chiesa sia sbalordito dalla bellezza dell'organo hauptwerk.
Da cosa devo partire?
la scelta tra monitor attivi e passivi deve esser data principalmente dalla qualità.
Devo saper se ci vogliono amplificatori, e quanti ce ne vogliono, devo avere un quadro completo perchè devo far passare tra poche settimane i cavi sopra i cornicioni...
Qualcuno mi aiuta?

Pretending that I wanted from 0.
I want everyone who comes into my church is stunned by the beauty of the organ Hauptwerk.
From what I have to leave?
the choice between active and passive monitors must be given primarily by the quality.
I need to know if we want to amplifiers, and how many it takes, I have a complete picture because I have a few weeks to pass the cables above the eaves ...
Someone help me?

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