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Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

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Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby EricMcK » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:48 pm

After successfully building a HW Advanced organ for a friend of mine, I started thinking about the endless possibilities of HW. As an experiment, I went to a nearby church with a 1990's-era Rodgers that has onboard MIDI. I was armed with my laptop running HW Free, a MIDI/USB converter and cabling to put the laptop audio back through the organ speakers.

Everything was going swimmingly until it came time to teach HW what manual was what. As I did in my friend's, I right-clicked on Swell, chose "auto-detect," and then played the lowest note, highest note, fast note and slow note. But the "Done" button never illuminated. Same thing with the Great. Same with the pedal.

I know the laptop is receiving MIDI from the organ. Is this a limitation of HW Free?
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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby profeluisegarcia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:44 pm

EricMcK wrote:
I know the laptop is receiving MIDI from the organ. Is this a limitation of HW Free?


No. I don´t think so. Perhaps you should go first to General Settings/General Configuration Wizard/Midi Hardware type/ and choose the appropriate option.
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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby organtechnology » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:24 am

EricMcK wrote:After successfully building a HW Advanced organ for a friend of mine, I started thinking about the endless possibilities of HW. As an experiment, I went to a nearby church with a 1990's-era Rodgers that has onboard MIDI. I was armed with my laptop running HW Free, a MIDI/USB converter and cabling to put the laptop audio back through the organ speakers.

Everything was going swimmingly until it came time to teach HW what manual was what. As I did in my friend's, I right-clicked on Swell, chose "auto-detect," and then played the lowest note, highest note, fast note and slow note. But the "Done" button never illuminated. Same thing with the Great. Same with the pedal.

I know the laptop is receiving MIDI from the organ. Is this a limitation of HW Free?


No that is a universal feature on all Hauptwerk editions.

The usual cause is no MIDI or too much MIDI. Hauptwerk is looking for one note on on one channel and port for the lowest key and the highest key. If it gets no MIDI it does not work or if it gets a note on two channels simultaneously it does not work . Likewise if there are other MIDI messages being sent they can interfere.
Some older MIDI keyboards sent a system message that they were active that might interfere.
I would get MIDI-OX on the laptop so you can check out the MIDI adapter and the value of the MIDI being sent.

Thomas
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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby mdyde » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:28 am

To add to Thomas' reply:

If the organ has both a MIDI OUT and a MIDI SEQ port then you might find that it's the latter that sends the most useful MIDI information for Hauptwerk purposes. Either way, MIDI-OX (Windows; or Snoize MIDI Monitor for OS X) would show. The 'Playing Hauptwerk live from a digital organ' section in the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 179-180 in the current v4.2.1 version) has some general background information.

organtechnology wrote:Some older MIDI keyboards sent a system message that they were active that might interfere.


MIDI 'Active Sensing' (Sys-Ex) messages shouldn't hurt; they're just ignored by Hauptwerk anyway.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby EricMcK » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:47 am

Thanks to all three of you. The organ has MIDI in, out and thru - I was ignoring 'thru.' I'll go back again and try the general configuration settings, and I will also download MIDI Ox.
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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby johnh » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:02 pm

MIDI Thru most likely won't be helpful. The Thru port should just be a copy of whatever arrives on the MIDI In port. You're interested in MIDI being generated from the console which would appear on the MIDI Out port. Make sure the Rodgers is set up to transmit MIDI. I recall there is an option to turn that on and off.

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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby organtechnology » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:46 pm

EricMcK wrote:Thanks to all three of you. The organ has MIDI in, out and thru - I was ignoring 'thru.' I'll go back again and try the general configuration settings, and I will also download MIDI Ox.


Eric,

If you get frustrated, I can help you through Teamviewer11 and probably resolve your set up issue in a few minutes.

Thomas
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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby engrssc » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:36 pm

Similar situation to Eric (first post) except working thru a friend who has a successful Hauptwerk setup of his own. Same deal, a MIDI interface connected to a Rodgers 1990ish 2M. Could not get auto-detect to work to ID the manuals. After hitting the lowest and highest notes, the DONE box started blinking (randomly.) MIDI=Ox showed Active Sensing present and some other garbage types. Doing nothing else except changing the MIDI interface to a MIDIsport 2 X 2, everything worked as expected.

Observation - bad MIDI interface, right? I got curious and had this friend bring along the so called bad interface. Connected it to my (MIDIfyed) Rodgers 340, Everything worked fine. The only difference I can imagine is that my instrument doesn't send Active Sensing. So we schlept all our needed stuff and went to his church (where he wanted to demo Hauptwerk) Same problem as before (with the original MIDI interface). Did the auto-detect bit, DONE started blinking (randomly). OK with the MIDIsport 2 X 2. Only "added feature" near as I can tell, is/was the Active Sensing :o Same results using my (known good) HP laptop running Win 7 Ultimate, 64 bit.

Bottom line, trash the so called bad MIDI interface. He's happy and I guess I am too. Slight curious tickle, tho.knowing Hauptwerk ignores Active Sensing. :? Would this be a fair guess that the Active Sensing overwhelmed the (bad) box which might have insufficient buffering?

And yes, we tried all the obvious stuff like cables, etc

I Googled around and found this tidbit. Not sure it is relevant.

Filter to block all active sensing events. Active sensing
messages are optional MIDI messages and intended to
be sent repeatedly to tell a receiver that a connection is
alive, however they can clutter up the MIDI channel or be
inadvertently recorded when dumping raw MIDI data to disk.

http://gareus.org/oss/lv2/midifilter#noactivesensing


Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby mdyde » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:47 am

Hello Ed,

engrssc wrote:Would this be a fair guess that the Active Sensing overwhelmed the (bad) box which might have insufficient buffering?


Possibly. Regardless, if the MIDI interface was sending corrupted/arbitrary MIDI messages to the computer (as shown by MIDI-OX), then I would say that the best place for it is the rubbish bin! Good-quality MIDI interfaces can be had relatively inexpensively.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Unable to auto-detect in HW Free

Postby engrssc » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:10 am

Again thanks, Martin. It's gone. Out of sight, out of mind.

Rgds,
Ed
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