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New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby mumblecake » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:57 am

RichardW wrote:How hard would it be for those actions to be added to the record functionality?

Without having access to the source code I would assume "the devil is in the detail". As I pointed out the result might lead to more confusion than actually addressing a pain point.

Either way I don't think that this discussion will lead to anything. I can't imagine it to be a priority. That said if you all think that it is, you obviously have the option of submitting an enhancement suggestion here:

http://www.hauptwerk.com/forms/suggestions/

Best Regards

Mathis
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby MarkEdmonds » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:24 pm

Thanks everyone for the interesting discussion on the registration-reset feature. I've much to learn on Hauptwerk and one thing I am not familiar with is accepted practises. However, I have never come across software that resets your settings the moment you press record and given the time that can be taken in testing out registration, to lose it in a flash is not good for the blood pressure.

Without knowing all the ins and outs, I think this can be implemented.

Hauptwerk knows the registration setting. It has to or it wouldn't know what samples to trigger when you play a note. Additionally, when you save a registration setting, it can't do that unless it knows the registration. When you copy the registration to the clipboard, that wouldn't work unless Hauptwerk knows the settings.

The process that is used to save the registration or copy it to the clipboard can surely be used to preserve the registration when you press record. The sequence would be this:

1. User presses record.
2. Hauptwerk copies the registration to a temporary store.
3. Hauptwerk resets the organ as it does now.
4. Hauptwerk inserts the relevant MIDI data to set the registration it has just copied to the temp store.
5. User records with the registration as previously set and keeps a happy disposition.

The feature could be made optional for those who want to keep the existing feature as-is.

I could have easily overlooked something of course but at the moment, I think that in principle, that idea would work.
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby MarkEdmonds » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:27 pm

organassist wrote:In response the original question of how to record without resetting the stops.

My program OrganAssist has done this for over a decade. Once you start OrganAssist it is continuously monitoring the state of the organ and, when you start playing notes, it starts a new recording by saving the necessary information to set all the stops and expression settings. When you stop playing, it automatically saves the completed track and waits for you to start playing again. I wrote this program because I was tearing out my hair trying to record files and hit exactly the problem you report. I can now record multiple pieces without even thinking about the fact that I am recording them.

P.S. To avoid the problem with stop activation noise at the start/end of the track during playback, OrganAssist can be configured to automatically pause after the stops are set, but before the first note, so you can make an audio recording with a silent start/finish.


Thanks for telling me about this. I've just googled and found http://www.organassist.com/ - the correct site? I'd like to check this out.
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby mumblecake » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:36 pm

MarkEdmonds wrote:1. User presses record.
2. Hauptwerk copies the registration to a temporary store.
3. Hauptwerk resets the organ as it does now.
4. Hauptwerk inserts the relevant MIDI data to set the registration it has just copied to the temp store.
5. User records with the registration as previously set and keeps a happy disposition.

Hi Mark,

Don't just tell us. Tell the makers :)

You can do that following the link I posted

Best regards

Mathis
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby engrssc » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:45 pm

Indeed, this is a very useful, add'l program. At first I thought it would be a nice add-on for Hauptwerk (as a suggestion), but since it is readily available, at least for a PC, there isn't a need. Will be be even better when it is able to work with Mac.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby James » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:55 pm

Actually, Organ Assist 2.7 is available for the Mac, though it may still be in beta form.
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby organassist » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:43 am

Yes - I do have a beta for the Mac but I ran into some unexpected problems that prevent a public release. It turns out that there are issues when using a Touchpad with Tap to Click. The rapid sequencing of the "mouse" events can cause problems that never occur in Windows (which can result in the program crashing). This problem mainly affects the Edit Organ Layout functionality - the recording / playback functions should be OK. Unfortunately, it will involve some considerable work to code around this issue. However, if you are using a mouse, or trackpad using physical buttons/movement, then I have found the beta to be fine and have not received any reports of problems from others who are testing.

Anyone who is interested in trying the Mac version can contact me via the website and I will provide a link.

David - http://www.organassist.com
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby mdyde » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:18 am

MarkEdmonds wrote:The process that is used to save the registration or copy it to the clipboard can surely be used to preserve the registration when you press record. The sequence would be this:

1. User presses record.
2. Hauptwerk copies the registration to a temporary store.
3. Hauptwerk resets the organ as it does now.
4. Hauptwerk inserts the relevant MIDI data to set the registration it has just copied to the temp store.
5. User records with the registration as previously set and keeps a happy disposition.

The feature could be made optional for those who want to keep the existing feature as-is.


Hello Mark,

Thanks very much for the interest in Hauptwerk, and for the suggestion.

In addition to the the stop states, there are actually some other reasons that Hauptwerk needs to reset the registration when starting recording in order to ensure that it plays back reliably (on any Hauptwerk system), e.g.:

- (Important) many organs (sample sets) have virtual switches and other controls for things that would affect the sound/behaviour in the recording, but may or may not have designated as 'stops' by the creator of the sample sets' creators, e.g. expression pedals, blower switches, unconventional couplers/linkages, 'settings' switches, theatre organ effects controls, ... . Resetting ensures that nothing gets missed.

- Similarly, it ensures that any MIDI organ console hardware you (or anybody you may send the MIDI file to) is guaranteed to be synchronised properly when the recording is played back (especially solenoid-actuated/illuminated stops/pistons, but also LCD panels).

- When practising/recording, the registration you finish with won't be the same registration that you want to start with, expect in the simplest case of a piece that has a constant registration throughout. Hence in most cases you would probably want the registration to be reset anyway.

- (Minor) for realism you might want the 'clunks' of the stop actions being turned on in sequence recorded at/near the beginning of the resulting audio/MIDI recording.

The expectation was that people would usually have stored the sequence of registrations to combinations anyway (e.g. the combination stepper) when making a complex recording (e.g. one with a non-trivial sequence of registration changes), or just use the 'Copy registration to clipboard' and 'Paste registration from clipboard' functions (on the Registration control panel/menu) in the simplest case of a recording with constant registration. Those Copy/Paste functions have keyboard short-cuts, and can also be assigned to MIDI pistons or individual computer keys, etc., for convenience.

However (although the organ does need to be reset to ensure that MIDI files always play back properly independently of combinations, registration, user settings, and user MIDI organ console hardware), it would certainly potentially be possible for us to add a user option in Hauptwerk's audio/MIDI recorder to make it perform the copy/paste registration automatically. I've logged and enhancement request for that, and we'll certainly consider it for the future.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby mdyde » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:24 am

MarkEdmonds wrote:Moving on to my next question.

Is there a way that I can save an organ with different settings? From what I can tell so far, it seems that any change I make to an organ becomes its standard state.

Let's say I've bought a sample set and there are one ot two ranks that I want to adjust the voicings for use with a particular style and I don't want to lose the original settings. Ideally, I could have two versions of the organ for loading, the original and the adjusted. For example, I might want a dominant pedal reed for one style but softer for another or a solo stop that I want to tone done for ensemble use etc.. Is there a way of doing this so that I have multiple versions of the organ in the Load menu?


There are four Hauptwerk 'configurations' (desktop short-cuts) that exist for those kinds of purposes -- they have completely independent user settings, but share the same combination sets and installed organs. The 'Installation: background information: Understanding the configurations' section in the main Hauptwerk user guide (page 18 in the current v4.2.1 version) covers those. You could also optionally use Hauptwerk's backup/restore function to copy all existing settings from one configuration to another ('Backing up and restoring your settings and data: Copying your settings from one configuration to another on the same computer' section on pages 30-32).
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby MarkEdmonds » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:36 pm

Thanks for your replies Martin. I had a long weekend so only just catching up.

Thank you for the detailed explanation on the registration reset. As is always the case, when you sit on the outside, you don't see all the complications so I am not surprised to hear there is a whole raft of factors not immediately apparent.

My approach on the recording stems from simple practise/playback. If I was doing a formal recording, yes, I would have the combinations pre-programmed but I was always taught to record practising where possible as it often reveals aspects you don't pick up when playing and having a built in recorder in Hauptwerk is a real bonus for this. In this context, you would practise a section until it sounds right and then record it to play back whilst keeping the current registration. If you are able to implement the background copy/paste operations, that would be excellent!

I'd like to branch back to where I started with this topic on some questions I need to check. I want to ask about the Dongle please - strictly technical, nothing silly like what happens if the weather conditions on Mars cause my dongle to break.

I already have Pace iLok 1 and Steinberg eLicenser dongles on my DAW. Are there any known compatibility problems between these two dongles and the Hauptwerk dongle?

Is the Hauptwerk dongle good with USB 3 ports? (there are confirmed reports that Steinberg's eLicenser doesn't like USB 3 for some reason and I would use USB 3 for the Hauptwerk dongle).

Any USB chipsets that are known to be unfriendly with the dongle? I have Renesas and TI chipsets.


Thank you,

Mark
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby B. Milan » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:22 pm

MarkEdmonds wrote:
I already have Pace iLok 1 and Steinberg eLicenser dongles on my DAW. Are there any known compatibility problems between these two dongles and the Hauptwerk dongle?

Is the Hauptwerk dongle good with USB 3 ports? (there are confirmed reports that Steinberg's eLicenser doesn't like USB 3 for some reason and I would use USB 3 for the Hauptwerk dongle).

Any USB chipsets that are known to be unfriendly with the dongle? I have Renesas and TI chipsets.


Thank you,

Mark


Hello Mark,

There are no compatibility problems that we are aware of and we've used the Steinberg eLicenser and the iLok along with the Hauptwerk key with no issues to run several other programs in conjunction with Hauptwerk for testing. The Hauptwerk USB keys work fine with USB 3.
Regards,
Brett Milan
http://www.hauptwerk.com
http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby MarkEdmonds » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:27 am

Excellent! Thank you Brett.

I think that covers everything.

Now I've got to find the funds. What with the console conversion, software and sample libraries, it's a v. heavy outlay. Has to be done though :-)
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby MarkEdmonds » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:06 pm

Another question.

I went into the Hauptwerk store to find out what the total cost would be including postage and included Hauptwerk plus two sample sets and I couldn't see the discount being applied to the sample sets. Is there a special code I need to use for this?

Thanks.
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby dhm » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:06 am

Hallo Mark,
Do you mean the Hauptwerk US/Europe store, or my UK store?
We can take orders by e-mail and apply the relevant discounts manually if that helps.
Also, our prices include postage and all UK/EU taxes.
Douglas Henn-Macrae
Authorized Hauptwerk Reseller
http://www.midi-organs.eu / http://www.gundulf.org.uk
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Re: New user checking out Hauptwerk with some questions

Postby B. Milan » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:02 am

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your interest in purchasing Hauptwerk. Which two sample sets are you attempting to order?
Regards,
Brett Milan
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http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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