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Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

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Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby paul2169 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:35 am

I'm new to the forum and posting here for the first time. My instrument is a Rodgers (analog) Concord 760 with MIDI manufactured around 1990. I've been able to engage (auto-detect) the keyboards, pedalboard, pistons with Hauptwerk free edition but not the lighted rocker tab couplers and lighted stop knobs. Data (using MIDI MONITOR) is being sent from the stops and couplers, so I'm stumped. Your help is appreciated. Paul
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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby NickNelson » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:24 pm

paul2169 wrote:Data (using MIDI MONITOR) is being sent from the stops and couplers, so I'm stumped.


What data? Can you provide a couple of examples.

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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby paul2169 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:00 pm

Swell Trompette 8'
14:51:01.504 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 0B 02 F7
14:51:04.815 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 0B 00
F7

Swell to Great 8'
14:51:18.057 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 1A 40 F7
14:51:19.514 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 1A 00 F7

Great Bourdon 8'
14:51:28.313 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 01 01 F7
14:51:29.546 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 01 00 F7

Pedal Subbass 16'
14:51:33.585 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 15 10 F7
14:51:34.773 From UM-ONE SysEx Universal Real Time 10 bytes F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 15 00 F7
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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby NickNelson » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:38 am

Those are standard MIDI sysex messages, and I assume that each pair is from the stop-on and stop-off actions.

The obvious, though laborious, approach would have been to set them up manually using the 'Generic MIDI Sys-ex constant messages' dialog, but that only allows for 8 bytes, and not the 10 that the Rodgers is sending.

As it stands, you might have to look into MIDI translator applications, which can change incoming MIDI messages into something else, or so I understand since I have not personally used them, or wait and see if someone more knowledgable about your particular console can offer an alternative suggestion.

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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby IainStinson » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:45 am

Have you run the General configuration wizard (pg 137 of the HW manual) and tried the various Rodger console options?

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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby organassist » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:37 am

I think you will find that this Rodgers implementation is what I have seen referred to as Phase I / II

The stop messages consist of 7 bytes fixed and then multiple pairs of bytes each representing up to 7 stops. In your first example the Trompette is group 0B stop 02. The problem with this is that you cannot use fixed messages as if you have another group 0B stop for example 04, then the message is the total of these numbers i.e. 0B 06 You could try adding multiple stops to confirm this. If you added the 4 stops you mention and then hit cancel the message would be F0 7F 00 00 2D 7F 00 0B 00 1A 00 01 00 15 00 F7 (but not necessarily in that order). This cancels the stops in groups 0B 1A 01 and 15.

I don't know if Hauptwerk has support for this yet but, in the meantime, I have already added support for this format for someone who is using a similar vintage Rodgers to connect to Hauptwerk. This is supported in my latest Beta version of OrganAssist which you could use to translate between the console and Hauptwerk. Contact me via my website http://www.organassist.com if you are interested in trying this beta version out as it is not yet public.
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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby csw900 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:06 am

HI Paul

Sysex stops are always difficult to deal with, have you thought about using a touch screen monitor. That is what I use and it can set the stops and couplers on ANY HW organ.

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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby ldeutsch » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:06 pm

Paul,

Your organ appears to be before the era when MIDI came standard on Rodgers organs. It was likely either a factory option or was added by a third party. In any case, I do not have a MIDI implementation sheet for the 760.

In general, Rodgers has been using a MIDI implementation for stops and couplers that sends a multi-byte message. Each time one of the controls is turned on or off, the instrument actually reports the status of all such controls in this single message.

When I was using HW v3, I wrote my own software to translate the Rodgers message into regular note on and off messages. However, HW 4 has this built in. If your organ uses any of the standard Rodgers MIDI systems, I am surprised that it cannot detect your stops and couplers.

There is one other thing I can think to check. Some Rodgers models have two MIDI out connectors. If yours has two, you should be using the one labeled for an external sequencer. The other one was designed to connect two Rodgers consoles together so one can control the other. If you have two MIDI out connectors, try going to the other one.

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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby engrssc » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:12 pm

[quote="ldeutsch"]The other one was designed to connect two Rodgers consoles together so one can control the other. /quote]

That's interesting. Only certain models having this "feature"? Not sure the purpose, but I could make some assumptions.. Something like remotely playing another (synthesizer) keyboard instrument, maybe?

Rgds,
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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby ldeutsch » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:34 am

This feature was definitely intentional from Rodgers and meant for controlling one Rodgers organ from another. Even if the models were different, there was logic in the console to translate registrations set on the master console to something similar on the slave. I played a concert once in a church in the San Francisco Bay Area that had two Rodgers organs - one in the chancel and one in the rear gallery - configured in this way. It worked pretty well. I could play the gallery organ from the chancel console and get each effects from the two speaker systems.

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Re: Rodgers Concord 760 with MIDI

Postby engrssc » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:44 am

So as not to derail this thread, but based on Les' interesting comment, I started a new thread:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17111&p=128456#p128456

A question for Les, how did you control such things as stops and expression on the remote, 2nd organ?

Rgds,
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