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Some other strange things about Hauptwerk-3

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musicalis

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Some other strange things about Hauptwerk-3

PostSat Jul 24, 2010 8:51 am

Hi
May be I mistake because I have not a master in English language, but if I have correctly understood the manual, it seems to me that something is not normal in the following items :

1) with the couplers:
The bass coupler should play the pedalboard with the lowest note played by an organist on one of his manual.
With coupler 1008, when I play on Great with a pedal stop engaged nothing happens. But, very strange, if a play a pedal, I can hear my Great manual playing this note. For me, this coupler does exactly the contrary of what we are waiting for. Am I wrong ?
The melody coupler 1009 has the same behaviour. Sorry I have no time to check every other couplers.

2) with the enclosures.
I am an electronic engineer and I have good acquaintance in audio. So, I have tryed to design some low-pass filters for some enclosed ranks. I wanted (box open) a bandwidth in the range 100/500 hz or 50/1000 Hz for the lowest pipes of a 8 feet stop, this, corresponding to the midi note 36 settings.
For the hightest pipes (Midi note 96) I wanted something like 600/8000 Hz.when the box is open
I designed something similar for the box closed, but with a smallest bandwith.
The problem I noticed is that is not allowed. We get an error message Notes 36 and 96 settings seem to have to share the same value for the upper limit of their low-pass filter.

May be one of you has an idea about that?
Thanks :D :D :D
Jean-Paul
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mdyde

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Re: Some other strange things about Hauptwerk-3

PostSat Jul 24, 2010 10:16 am

Hello Jean-Paul,

(I assume you're referring to creating your own custom organ definition using the Custom Organ Design Module; CODM.)

The bass coupler should play the pedalboard with the lowest note played by an organist on one of his manual.
With coupler 1008, when I play on Great with a pedal stop engaged nothing happens. But, very strange, if a play a pedal, I can hear my Great manual playing this note. For me, this coupler does exactly the contrary of what we are waiting for. Am I wrong ?
The melody coupler 1009 has the same behaviour. Sorry I have no time to check every other couplers.


You're using the wrong coupler codes. Referring to the CODM user guide the relevant coupler codes are:

1008. Manual1 to Pedal Bass
1103. Pedal to Manual1 Bass

The traditional 'to' notation means that when you play on the keyboard for the second division then the first division will sound. So if you want the Pedal stops to sound from the lowest note played on Manual1 (the Great) then you would want 'Pedal to Manual1 Bass', i.e. you would need to include coupler code 1103, not 1008 (which is the opposite).

See also this post that discusses the traditional 'to' notation used in organ couplers (which is the notation used in the CODM user guide).:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7064

2) with the enclosures.
I am an electronic engineer and I have good acquaintance in audio. So, I have tryed to design some low-pass filters for some enclosed ranks. I wanted (box open) a bandwidth in the range 100/500 hz or 50/1000 Hz for the lowest pipes of a 8 feet stop, this, corresponding to the midi note 36 settings.
For the hightest pipes (Midi note 96) I wanted something like 600/8000 Hz.when the box is open
I designed something similar for the box closed, but with a smallest bandwith.
The problem I noticed is that is not allowed. We get an error message Notes 36 and 96 settings seem to have to share the same value for the upper limit of their low-pass filter.


Can you post the relevant excerpt from your CODM organ definition file that shows all of the enclosure settings for the rank in question, as well as the exact error message Hauptwerk is giving as a result (you can copy and paste the message text from the Hauptwerk log via 'Help | Show error/activity log')?

Hopefully then we'll be able to advise which of your enclosure settings you need to change.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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musicalis

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Re: Some other strange things about Hauptwerk-3

PostSat Jul 24, 2010 5:22 pm

Dear Martin

Thank for your fast answer

1)
For the coupler 1008, you are right, i have taken the oposite, because for a french man "1008. Manual1 to Pedal Bass" seems to mean "play manual1 and pedal will sound".


2)
for the enclosure, I have not kept the values that made an error, but i have made this example so as to be able to reply to your post :

RANK = Bassoon 16'

<Encl_IsEnclosed>y</Encl_IsEnclosed>
<Encl_EnclosureCode>210</Encl_EnclosureCode>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_OverallAttnDb>6</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_OverallAttnDb>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MaxFreqHz>60</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MaxFreqHz>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MinFreqHz>30</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MinFreqHz>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_ExtraAttnAtMinDb>4</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_ExtraAttnAtMinDb>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MaxFreqHz>540</Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MaxFreqHz>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MinFreqHz>20</Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MinFreqHz>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_OverallAttnDb>2</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_OverallAttnDb>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MaxFreqHz>8000</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MaxFreqHz>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MinFreqHz>1000</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MinFreqHz>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_ExtraAttnAtMinDb>12</Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_ExtraAttnAtMinDb>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MaxFreqHz>9000</Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MaxFreqHz>
<Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MinFreqHz>550</Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MinFreqHz>
<Encl_MIDINoteNumOfFirstEnclosedPipeIfWholeRankNotEnclosed>0</Encl_MIDINoteNumOfFirstEnclosedPipeIfWholeRankNotEnclosed>
<Encl_MIDINoteNumOfLastEnclosedPipeIfWholeRankNotEnclosed>0</Encl_MIDINoteNumOfLastEnclosedPipeIfWholeRankNotEnclosed>

ERROR MESSAGE:
2010-07-24-23-34-46: ERR:3151 Enclosure ID 000210 has pipe ID 002584 listed as an invalid element - neither of the maximum frequencies can be equal to the frequency of its corresponding minimum. [ACT:3041 Validating an organ enclosure pipe object.]

Thank for your help, but please do not loose too much of your precious time for me. :D :D :D
Jean-Paul
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mdyde

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Re: Some other strange things about Hauptwerk-3

PostSun Jul 25, 2010 5:52 am

Hello Jean-Paul,

For the enclosure error message and how to avoid it, have a look at this post:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6467&p=45201#p45248

Also I note that you currently have your settings set for a high-pass filter, rather than a low-pass that you mentioned in your original question. Not sure if you intended that? The 'max' frequency settings refer to the points of greatest magnitude response, so for a low-pass filter you need all of the 'max' frequencies to be numerically lower than the 'min' settings.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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musicalis

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Re: Some other strange things about Hauptwerk-3

PostSun Jul 25, 2010 12:19 pm

Thank you very much.
To help other people, I give you my translation into French. :D :D :D

The Rank.Encl_... Les paramètres sont toujours spécifiés pour les notes n° 36 et 96, et ensuite reportés linéairement pour toutes les autres valeurs de notes du rang.

Pour n'importe quelle note donnée, les fréquences maximum et minimum avec la boite ouverte n'ont pas le droit d'être égales (parce que cela donnerait une réponse en fréquence avec une transition en pente infiniment raide) . Idem pour les fréquences maximum et minimum avec la boîte fermée

De là je pense que les paramètres actuels de votre boîte d'expression ne transgressent pas cette règle quand ils sont appliqués entre les notes n° 36 et 96, mais les violent quand ils sont projetés (linéairement) au-delà de ces notes.

Pour tenter d'expliquer, imaginez un graphique avec les numéros des notes MIDI également espacés le long de l'axe des abscisses et de la fréquence en kHz sur l'axe des ordonnées.


Placez les points Rank.Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MaxFreqHz and Rank.Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MaxFreqHz sur le graphe et tracez une ligne les joignant, puis prolongez-la jusqu'à la note la plus basse et la note la plus aiguë de votre rang (par exemple notes 24 and 108 pour un rang unifié de 8 octaves d'un orgue de théâtre).

Maintenant, faites la même chose pour Rank.Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MinFreqHz et Rank.Encl_FiltParamWhenClsdForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MinFreqHz.

Le croisement des deux lignes n'est pas autorisé (parce que cela nécessiterait

Sur une autre feuille de papier milimetré, faites la même chose pour Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MaxFreqHz et Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MaxFreqHz (joignez les points avec une droite de longueur appropriée) et continuez avec Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum036_MinFreqHz et Encl_FiltParamWhenOpenForPipeMIDINoteNum096_MinFreqHz.

De même, ces deux lignes ne doivent pas se couper.

L'erreur que vous avez signifie que l'un des deux graphes a des lignes qui se croisent (et par conséquent spécifient un filtre avec une réponse en fréquence impossible).

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