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Audio problems with HW4

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andll

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Audio problems with HW4

PostThu Jul 21, 2011 10:44 am

Hi All,
As a newcomer to this forum - I need a little help...

I used the free edition of HW3 for a while with no problems.
Perfect audio, no 'crackles'.
HW4 does not behave the same way for me :(

The sound breaks up and 'crackles ' not a lot and not often, but it is annoying.

My setup is quite modest with a single core Athlon processor (3Mhz I think) and 2GB RAM.
Audio card is an Audigy ZS.
OS is Win XP.

Audio is set to use the Direct Sound option, and selecting any of the 3 Creative ASIO drivers offered gives me an error 5151 that the Soundblaster cannot be set to 44100 HZ. A reboot is suggested, but this does not help.

I have the latest drivers installed.

I have tried adjusting the frame size, and this can make it worse, but not better.

So.... any pointers on what to try next appreciated! :roll:
Many thanks
Andy
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mdyde

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostThu Jul 21, 2011 11:10 am

Hello Andy,

First of all, make sure that you have the latest version of the drivers are installed for your Soundblaster Audigy sound card, and that all current Windows updates are applied. Reboot the computer if you changed anything.

Once that's done, what ASIO drivers entries are available for the 'Audio output device' setting on the 'General settings | Audio outputs' screen?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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andll

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostThu Jul 21, 2011 1:19 pm

Hi Martin,
Thanks for replying......

The Audigy drivers are up to date, as I checked them today.
BUT windows is not.
As my organ computer is not connected to the Internet, its not something I do too often.
But I'll do it tomorrow.

I have 3 ASIO drivers listed:

ASIO: Creative ASIO
ASIO: SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO 24/96 [B...
ASIO: SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO [B000]

Will update when I have run the Windows update.

Thanks...
Andy
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mdyde

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostThu Jul 21, 2011 1:51 pm

Thanks, Andy.

ASIO: Creative ASIO
ASIO: SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO 24/96 [B...
ASIO: SB Audigy 2 ZS ASIO [B000]


I don't have any experience with the Audigy ZS specifically, I'm afraid, so I can't be certain which, if any, of them could be expected to work acceptably, although my guess would be that it would be worth trying both the first and third.

Not sure if this applies to the Audigy ZS, but the 'standard' (non-ZS) Audigy's ASIO drivers only work at 48 kHz. (For best performance and audio quality) Hauptwerk requires that an ASIO driver use the native sample rate of any sample set you load in Hauptwerk. Hence if your Audigy's ASIO drivers only work at 48 kHz you might need to use 'Organ | Load organ' in Hauptwerk to load the 'StAnnesMoseley-ForLocked48kHzDrivers' organ (which is actually included specifically as a work-around so the organ can be used with the Creative Audigy sound cards), instead of the standard (44.1 kHz) 'StAnnesMoseley' organ.

The best longer-term option is probably to get a 'semi-pro' or 'pro' audio interface, which has good ASIO drivers that support both 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz. E.g. the M-Audio 2496 (PCI) is a very popular interface amongst Hauptwerk users, that's exceptionally good value for money in terms of audio quality and performance:

http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/m-audio-audiophile-2496-hi-quality-24-96-pci-audio-midi-interface--2062
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PCIinterfaces

They can often also often be found cheaply second-hand on eBay.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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andll

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostThu Jul 21, 2011 3:00 pm

Hi Martin,
Again - thank you for such a prompt reply.
I will try the 48khz version, and see if that cures my ASIO problems...
And also follow up on the card you have suggested.

Best wishes
Andy
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Johannes Sørensen

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostFri Jul 22, 2011 2:35 am

The problem with the Creative Audigy 2 ZS sound card released 2003 is worse than a driver question. The DSP on the card as well as other Audigy and Adigy 2 cards works at 48KHz only. Sound of 44.1KHz sample rate is resampled both on the way in and on the way out and only possible with a DirectSound driver – not an ideal design of a sound card!
With the ZS card an ASIO driver works at 48KHz sample rate and 96KHz but in a state with the DSP bypassed.
The next totally new generation X-Fi cards (without the limitation to 48KHz) was launched August 2005, and independent of version Audigy belongs to the past on a museum when we talk about audio.
When a couple of years ago I replaced a X-Fi Elite Pro (much better than any Audigy card) with a 'semi-pro' audio interface (RME), I experienced an improvement of the sound – beyond placebo effect I think.

Best regards
Johannes
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mdyde

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostFri Jul 22, 2011 7:53 am

Hello again, Andy.

If you get your Audigy's ASIO drivers working but you still have the problem with audio crackles, do you see any of the meters on the 'View | Large control panels (for this organ) | Audio, MIDI and performance' screen going into the red or orange when the crackles occur?

Image

Do the crackles only occur when playing with lots of stops/couplers drawn, or do they also sometimes occur when just a single quiet stop is drawn?

Do you have the same problems if you download and try the (48 kHz) v3 version of the St. Anne's organ in Hauptwerk v4, instead of the v4 version that's installed with Hauptwerk v4?:

http://www.hauptwerk.com/stannesv3/

(The older version of the St. Anne's sample set was less memory and CPU-intensive than the new one, which is much better quality.)

Also, straight after launching Hauptwerk, please use 'Help | View activity log' and copy and paste the full text of the last 'INF:4165' entry from it to the forum, so that we can see the exact processor that your PC is using, as well as the PC's other system info (memory, disk space, etc.). Thanks.

We have an old (2003) 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 PC with 1.5 GB of RAM, 512 KB of level 2 cache, and 32-bit XP, which we use as a benchmark to test that each new version of Hauptwerk performs at least as well as previous ones on older/slower (by today's standards) PCs.

Hauptwerk v4.0.0 is (necessarily) a bit more demanding in terms of CPU L2 cache usage, but it performed just as well as v3.30 on that Pentium 4 PC. However, conceivably if you have a CPU that's older than that, or has less L2 cache, then there might be some difference.

Which exact version of Hauptwerk v3 were you using before upgrading to v4? V3.30? Or an earlier version?
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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andll

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostFri Jul 22, 2011 10:23 am

Hi Martin / Johannes,
I have loaded the 48khz version of the St Anne's - and using the ASIO: Creative driver all is well.
No breakup, no crackles - and audio sounds fine with full organ.

As both of you have said - seems my sound card needs updating.
So thats next on my list of things to do.... :)

Thanks for your prompt help and support.

Andy
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mdyde

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostFri Jul 22, 2011 10:46 am

Thanks, Andy.

Excellent.

Perhaps the slightly later version of the Microsoft Direct-X libraries that Hauptwerk v4 links to (compared to v3) don't like the Creative Audigy's DirectSound driver for some reason.

Anyway, glad to hear it's resolved now.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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HeAu

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostWed Jul 27, 2011 7:50 am

Hello Andy!

I am using Creative Audigy2ZS for notebook. While it's DirectSound-driver is working fine with HW V1 their performance with HW V4 is really not sufficient too (for several reasons I am still using HW V1, but I like to experiment with all the new versions). But when using the ASIO-driver which Creative offers since a few years HW4 it is working fine again if and only if at least one of my USB-keyboards (M-audio 61es) is connected (if no keyboard is connected, the sound is distorted).
The ASIO-device used is called "SB Audigy 2 ASIO 24/96 [FECO]". Driver version number 6.0.1.1377. HW4 Buffersize 9 msec.
Tests were ok with St.Annes, St.Annes 48kHz, Marcussen V1 imported, Paramount 310, but I have to deactivate at least 2 of the new reality features for a performance which I am used to achieve with HW V1.

I am using Win XP upto date in a notebook with Intel chipset.

Hope that helps.

Best regards
heau
Last edited by HeAu on Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ggoode_sa

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Re: Audio problems with HW4

PostWed Jul 27, 2011 3:32 pm

Hi,

I have the Audigy ZS 2 Soundblaster card with the ASIO drivers that can only work at 48khz too. For any sample sets that require 44.1khz I use the ASIO4ALL driver (which offers an ASIO connection to the WDM Kernel Streaming drivers). For the larger organs I sometimes need to tweak the buffer settings, but otherwise I can play with ultra low latency @ 44.1khz :)

GrahamG

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