How to get a full list of midi codes?

Hi,

I need to get a full list of all the midi codes that a particular Hauptwerk organ model (e.g. St Anne's Moseley) will accept. I need this so I can check that the midi codes being generated by other software are correct, and if not, correct them. The codes used by drawstops, swell pedals etc. are particularly difficult to extract. I can do it by laboriously going to Organ Settings/Connect switch (MIDI) inputs to organ switches, selecting each one in turn, writing down the Organ Switch and the corresponding Input Switch, and then going to General Settings/Switch (MIDI) inputs, and for each Input Switch in the previous list, finding it in the list, selecting it, and writing down the midi event type, midi input path, midi event number and possibly the velocity.

That's all extremely tedious. Is there some way I can get a report with all this information in it? Or can I extract it from the organ configuration files? I've had a look at the StAnnesMoseley.Organ.Hauptwerk.xml file, but have not been able to decypher it - the tags are all cryptic single characters like this: <o><a>1</a><b>51036</b><c>36</c></o> presumably to save space. Is this structure documented somewhere?

I'm using Hauptwerk 3.

Thanks - Rowan

[mdyde]

Hello Rowan,

(Topic moved to the Technical Support forum.)

Can I first of all ask if you have a licence for Hauptwerk v3? (I couldn't find a record of a licence under your name or email address, but if it was ordered under a different name please just let us know.) Since Hauptwerk v4 has been released, superseding v3, we only still support Hauptwerk v3 for people who ordered a licence for it less than 12 months ago. If you have a licence for v3 that was ordered more than 12 months and need support from us, we'd really need you to order a licence upgrade to v4 if you need support: http://www.hauptwerk.com/store

If you ordered a licence for v3 from December 2010 onward then you're entitled to a free upgrade as covered here: http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8354#p60170

If you're using the Free Edition then you can upgrade to the v4 Free Edition for free anyway by simply downloading and installing v4: http://www.hauptwerk.com/downloads/hauptwerk-downloads/

(We don't provide support formally for the Free Edition, but other people might be able to help and we try to provide a certain amount of informal help if we can.)

Hauptwerk v4 has a completely different MIDI implementation from v3, hence it makes a big difference what version you're using.

Many thanks.

Hi,

I need to get a full list of all the midi codes that a particular Hauptwerk organ model (e.g. St Anne's Moseley) will accept..........................

That's all extremely tedious. Is there some way I can get a report with all this information in it? Or can I extract it from the organ configuration files? I've had a look at the StAnnesMoseley.Organ.Hauptwerk.xml file, but have not been able to decypher it - the tags are all cryptic single characters like this: <o><a>1</a><b>51036</b><c>36</c></o> presumably to save space. Is this structure documented somewhere?

I'm using Hauptwerk 3.

Thanks - Rowan

Rowan.

The "organ" in itself does not accept MIDI codes. This is all handled by Hauptwerk itself and is not affected by the organ definition. The StAnnesMoseley.Organ.Hauptwerk.xml file is compressed for efficiency and is not intended to be read by humans, although it can be generated in a decompressed form. However, there is absolutely no MIDI code information contained in that file (or any other ODF) so don't give yourself a headache by searching through it.

AFAIK Hauptwerk has never been intended as a MIDI monitor, although Hauptwerk 4 does a vey good job, with auto-detecting and will give up this information by checking the appropriate user menus/tables.

As Hauptwerk 3 has no auto-detect, it will only contain MIDI codes that you have pre-defined, so were already known.

I suggest using a monitor such as MIDI-OX, outside of Hauptwerk, which will give you real-time information from the MIDI source. Better than that - change to Hauptwerk 4, use auto-detect and forget about the inner workings of MIDI. Much better for the blood pressure!

Alan,

Thanks for your very useful reply.

>The "organ" in itself does not accept MIDI codes. This is all handled by Hauptwerk itself
>and is not affected by the organ definition.

Well, all that stuff is configurable by changing the allocation of input switches to organ switches, and by changing the allocation of midi channels and event types, numbers velocities to input switches. Where is all this configuration information stored? That's what I need to be able to access.

>The StAnnesMoseley.Organ.Hauptwerk.xml file is compressed
>for efficiency and is not intended to be read by humans

I suspected that was the case...

>although it can be generated in a decompressed form

How do I do this?

>However, there is absolutely no MIDI code information contained in that file

That explains why I couldn't find it then!

>AFAIK Hauptwerk has never been intended as a MIDI monitor

Not quite sure what you mean here. I don't want to use it as a midi monitor. I want to use it to generate high quality organ sounds from midi input commands - isn't that what it's meant for? In my case the midi commands come from another piece of software (which is generating them by translating from data in a different format). What I'm trying to do is to adjust the midi commands generated by this other software to match Hauptwerk so the music gets played correctly.

>As Hauptwerk 3 has no auto-detect, it will only contain MIDI
>codes that you have pre-defined, so were already known.

All I've done is to download Hauptwerk 3 and install it (in free mode), and load the St Anne's Moseley organ. I haven't predefined any midi codes (they must already have been defined somewhere in Hauptwerk or in the St Annes Moseley model). That's why I need to find out how they've been defined.

>I suggest using a monitor such as MIDI-OX, outside of Hauptwerk,
>which will give you real-time information from the MIDI source.

I know how to do this, but it doesn't help me, because I want to adjust the midi generating software to generate what Hauptwerk needs, rather than adapting Hauptwerk to the midi source. This is because I want the Hauptwerk installation to be as easy and standard off-the-shelf as possible. I don't want to have to do a lot of special reconfiguration.

I guess I could try switching to Hauptwerk 4 if that makes things easier, but I still need to be able to generate a complete list of midi codes that Hauptwerk expects to control keys, drawstops, couplers, swell pedals etc. (I don't need pistons). How can I do this (with either Hauptwerk 3 or 4)?

Thanks for your help - Rowan

[mdyde]

Hello Rowan,

All I've done is to download Hauptwerk 3 and install it (in free mode)

I see that you did email us yesterday and mentioned that you're using the Free Edition. Sorry for the confusion. Hence I've moved your email to this section of the forum.

Please do upgrade to Hauptwerk v4 before doing anything else - its MIDI implementation is completely different (much better and easier) and we no longer provide support for v3. It doesn't cost anything to upgrade to the v4 Free Edition.

When you've upgraded to v4 and familiarised yourself with it then let us know if you still need help.

I guess I could try switching to Hauptwerk 4 if that makes things easier, but I still need to be able to generate a complete list of midi codes that Hauptwerk expects to control keys, drawstops, couplers, swell pedals etc. (I don't need pistons). How can I do this (with either Hauptwerk 3 or 4)?

The main MIDI implementation isn't fixed at all, in either Hauptwerk v4 or v3. You define it to be whatever you want it to be. In v4 you would normally do that by using auto-detection ('MIDI learn') to configure Hauptwerk automatically for whatever MIDI messages your MIDI hardware sends.

(Hauptwerk v4 also has a special, completely fixed, MIDI implementation specifically for its MIDI recorder/player and for MIDI sequencing, which is documented in its user guide, but you shouldn't use that for live use, because it has special functionality for integrating with sequencers.)

Not quite sure what you mean here. I don't want to use it as a midi monitor. I want to use it to generate high quality organ sounds from midi input commands - isn't that what it's meant for? In my case the midi commands come from another piece of software (which is generating them by translating from data in a different format). What I'm trying to do is to adjust the midi commands generated by this other software to match Hauptwerk so the music gets played correctly.

In Hauptwerk v4 you would just use auto-detection (right-click on any virtual control and select 'Auto-detect MIDI/key triggers ...') to configure Hauptwerk's MIDI settings automatically to match whatever your MIDI controller software is using, rather than the other way around.

I know how to do this, but it doesn't help me, because I want to adjust the midi generating software to generate what Hauptwerk needs, rather than adapting Hauptwerk to the midi source. This is because I want the Hauptwerk installation to be as easy and standard off-the-shelf as possible. I don't want to have to do a lot of special reconfiguration.

There are no 'default' MIDI settings in Hauptwerk v4. V4's MIDI implementation is specifically designed from the ground up so that it can configured quickly and easily for any known MIDI hardware, with no knowledge of MIDI needed on the part of the user, using only its auto-detection.

Are you creating some MIDI software or hardware products to be sold to users for use with Hauptwerk? If so, it's vital that you do that for v4 (not v3), since v3 is no longer available or supported (except for a few remaining users who ordered it between September and November 2010). It's also very, very important that you design any commercial products to work with Hauptwerk as it's designed and documented to be used, i.e. using its native auto-detection.

Hope that helps.

Hello Rowan.

I rather think that Martin has answered most of your points and I strongly recommend that you take his advice and upgrade to Hauptwerk 4. You can then configure your generating software in (more or less) any way that you wish and Hauptwerk (4) will pick up and act on the codes you choose to send. Believe me, it really is a great improvement over Hauptwerk 3, even for old die-hards like me who enjoy messing with MIDI codes.

I suggest that you use a simple regime using Note-On/Note-Off MIDI messages for everything. Just separate the keyboards from all other control data by using different MIDI channels.
If you prefer, you could use Note-On/Note-Off for keyboards and Program Change for controls. Just keep it simple.

Well, all that stuff is configurable by changing the allocation of input switches to organ switches, and by changing the allocation of midi channels and event types, numbers velocities to input switches. Where is all this configuration information stored? That's what I need to be able to access.

Hauptwerk stores its own configuration files, which you should not touch, or you run the risk of breaking your installation. In Hauptwerk 3, as Martin has said, there are no defaults, you as the user simply specify what the MIDI messages will be, by entering them into the General tables, then cross link those to each separate organ, in the Organ tables. With Hauptwerk 4, all of that is redundant and you will have a far easier life.

>The StAnnesMoseley.Organ.Hauptwerk.xml file is compressed
>for efficiency and is not intended to be read by humans

I suspected that was the case...

>although it can be generated in a decompressed form

How do I do this?

TBQH this is not the best way to introduce yourself to the 'ways' of ODFs. A better way to learn about how it all goes together is to look at the example Custom Definitions that Hauptwerk provides and perhaps modify one, or write your own using the CODM to compile the (compressed) ODF for use.
Then if you feel like getting into full sample set production, you should approach MDA for their guide to creating sample sets. It may be a long learning curve.

Not quite sure what you mean here. I don't want to use it as a midi monitor. I want to use it to generate high quality organ sounds from midi input commands - isn't that what it's meant for?

Indeed it is, but your missive seemed to indicate that you wanted to detect what was being sent by MIDI and use that in the tables. As explained above, with Hauptwerk 4, life is far, far easier.

All I've done is to download Hauptwerk 3 and install it (in free mode), and load the St Anne's Moseley organ. I haven't predefined any midi codes (they must already have been defined somewhere in Hauptwerk or in the St Annes Moseley model). That's why I need to find out how they've been defined.

AFAIK there's never been a default set of codes supplied with a 'clean' install of Hauptwerk 3. If you haven't defined any, there will be none stored, so there's nothing to search for. Because you can click on screen objects and "play a tune" with a mouse, may be misleading you, as this does not relate to MIDI.

I guess I could try switching to Hauptwerk 4 if that makes things easier, but I still need to be able to generate a complete list of midi codes that Hauptwerk expects to control keys, drawstops, couplers, swell pedals etc. (I don't need pistons). How can I do this (with either Hauptwerk 3 or 4)?

Thanks for your help - Rowan

The MIDI codes are what YOU choose, in either Hauptwerk 3 or 4. Hauptwerk doesn't "expect" any particular code until you "tell" it what they will be.

Yes, do upgrade to Hauptwerk 4. You will only have your own software to configure once and let Hauptwerk auto-detect the rest.

[mdyde]

Hello again Rowan,

A quick P.S.: the 'MIDI implementation' section in the Hauptwerk v4 user guide (pages 286-292) gives recommendations for MIDI implementations to use for third-party hardware/software for maximum compatibility with Hauptwerk.

Hence please also have a read through that when considering what implementation to build into your software.