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First post -- First question

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cvmoreau

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First post -- First question

PostMon Jan 16, 2012 8:49 pm

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm quite pleased to be a new member of the forum. I've been an observer for some weeks, and it's great to now be able to take part.

I'm posting under Free Edition Support, since, at this time, that's the only version of Hauptwerk that I've used. (If this is the wrong place, I apologize to the moderator, and ask that it be moved to the appropriate one.) I installed HW on my homebrew PC which has a quadcore processor and 8 Gb of memory. I've been experimenting with it by using my Casio Previa 330 piano as a midi keyboard. To say that I'm hooked is an understatement!

I have decided that over the next few years (which will take me into retirement) that I'm going to slowly assemble, in small, but quality steps, the nicest console that I can manage, with dedicated computer and reasonably good sound system. So, within the next two to three weeks (to be honest, as soon as my tax refund arrives!) I plan to order two Classic Pro keyboards from Classic Midi Works, and the basic edition of HW. After that, as soon as it's financially comfortable, I plan to add a third manual, Classic's pedal board, and swell shoes.

This (almost) brings me to my first question of you more knowledgeable folks. I know that Classic's expression pedals are analog devices and that their pedal board allows them to be plugged into it and configured as swell, crescendo, or whatever, in HW. However, I know, without doubt, that it will be some months before I'll be able to purchase the pedal board and shoes. In the interim, I would like to have an easy way to just control the overall volume. There are numerous brands and types of inexpensive analog "volume pedals" on the market, and I'm sure that there must be a fairly easy way to interface one to my system; but, I'm not sure what that is. The Classic Pro keyboards' description says that they have "Two analog inputs for volume and crescendo." Would these inputs work with one of these inexpensive volume pedals? Would connecting to one manual control the volumes of the others, as well? If not, how, then, should I interface the pedal so that it will control the overall volume?

I've no doubt that after I begin building my VPO that I will have additional questions (I'm somewhat uncertain about configuring the pistons, for example), but I'll be most appreciative if someone can guide me in the right direction for the volume pedal, since I'll probably want to go ahead and purchase one when I order the keyboards and the software.

Many thanks!
-Chris
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Martin_Dümig

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Re: First post -- First question

PostTue Jan 17, 2012 8:07 am

Hello Chris,

all normal volume pedals i have seen yet have an analog variable resistor build in. They have an 1/4" jack like a headphone. The tip is connected to the slide, the ring and shaft to the upper and lower ends of the resistor. The total resistance is not very important, since it is used as a voltage divider. But there may be volume pedals equipped with a logarithmic potentiometer for direct use to modify the amplitude of an analog audio signal.

The voltage given by the volume pedal is transformed to midi controller data within the Classic Keyboard and sent to the computer and Hauptwerk. Then you could configure Hauptwerk to do very different things with this data - emulating an crescendo roller, driving the shutters of a division or, as you would like to, control the overall volume of the organ. At a virtual pipe organ i would prefere driving the shutters and set the overall volume with the "Audio, Midi and Performance" panel of Hauptwerk to a reasonable value. But you may link your pedal to the volume throttle of this panel.

So the answer is: Yes, nearly any cheap volume pedal should be able to be used as controller for the Classic Keyboard (and also your Casio Keyboard, since i expect that it also should have a connector for a volume pedal).

Best regards from Germany - Martin
You can play Bach on every organ.
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gingercat

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Re: First post -- First question

PostTue Jan 17, 2012 8:21 am

Welcome to the forum!
...and even if your chosen pedal has a different range to the Classic one, that won't matter as Hauptwerk can automatically calibrate the input when you assign it using the MIDI-learn functionality.
Regards,
Chris Blaylock
i5 4670k, 32GB RAM, Win7, 2xELO 1280x1024 Touchscreens, Focusrite Saffire, MIDISport 4x4
4 Manual Console, 32 R&C Pedalboard, 3xExpression, Solenoid coupler tabs
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engrssc

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Re: First post -- First question

PostTue Jan 17, 2012 10:49 am

I would only add to the above, generally a pedal resistance is best in the range of 5K (5,000) to 10K (10,000) ohms when used with a MIDI (pedal) encoder. As an inline volume control, which some pedals are designed to be, generally the resistance is much higher as in 1M (1,000,000) ohms or more.

The better pedal encoders "compensate" for a "nervous" (organist's) foot by not sending every slight (pedal) movement, but rather averaging the changes in resistance by some type of scanning scheme. If every slight movement were converted directly to MIDI messages without this scheme, there would be quite a flood of MIDI (information) going to the computer.

An aside, a similar scheme is used in a keyboard encoder for the same (anti-flooding) reason. This eliminates what is commonly referred to contact bounce whereby when an (electrical) switch contact is made, you might think of it as one big, initial connection followed by several close together additional connections. This, too, would flood the MIDI stream to the computer.

Without knowing exactly what hardware is being considered/used, suffice it to say there are stand alone MIDI pedal encoders available that accept the (variable) resistance pedal output (within the 5K to 10K range) directly and convert these resistance (more accurately - voltage) changes to MIDI (information) via a USB connection to the computer. Some of these also accept other organ related components such as pistons, stops as well as keyboards.

Rgds,
Ed
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Andrew Grahame

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Re: First post -- First question

PostTue Jan 17, 2012 2:54 pm

Hello Chris,

Here are some other volume pedal options.

A good low-cost volume pedal is the Yamaha FC7.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical- ... mode=model

It is similar in size and range of travel to a conventional organ swell pedal.

I can't comment on whether or not this would work on a Classic MIDI Works pedalboard as I have no experience of this latter product. However I can testify that it's easy to convert the Yamaha FC7 analog signal to MIDI using a MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

I have three of these pedals, each with its own pedal controller, on my own Hauptwerk console. They connect in series, and thus require just a single MIDI port for the combined output. The controller chain also requires a MIDI input to supply power. If using just a single pedal it the controller will work OK in its default setting. If more than one pedal is needed - up to a maximum of 4 - each controller needs to be programmed differently. This can be done using MIDI Ox, which is free.

http://www.midiox.com/

Another option which many Hauptwerk users have found works well for providing two swell pedals plus ten toe pistons is the Behringer FCB1010.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx

I have one of these also, purchased before I knew of the Yamaha/MIDI Solutions option. The swell pedals are smaller than the Yahama units and their travel range is less, but they work fine with Hauptwerk nonetheless. You'll find some examples in the console photos on the PCOrgan website.

http://www.pcorgan.com/indexEN.html

The auto-detect function in Hauptwerk 4 makes an easy job of configuring all of this hardware.

Good luck with your project, and welcome aboard!

Regards,

Andrew
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cvmoreau

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Re: First post -- First question

PostTue Jan 17, 2012 7:43 pm

Wow, what wonderful, prompt responses! I thank you all, very much, for setting me straight. I have to admit that I was being stupid, and wasn't thinking, actually, about converting the analog output of the pedal into midi. I suppose I was just thinking, really, about somehow controlling the volume of the analog signal to the speakers. Obviously, a midi output that can be used and addressed by Hauptwerk is much, much better.

After reading all your responses and giving thought to the best way to go, I belive that I might go ahead and purchase the Behringer FCB1010. The cost of the unit is less than the total cost of one pedal, such as the Yamaha ,and the Midi Solutions pedal controller. It will give me two expression pedals, which I can use as swell and crescendo, as well as 20 "toe pistons." This is far better than one "volume" pedal. Also, I expect this to be a somewhat temporary solutions, to be used only until I'm able to get the pedal board and swell shoes from Classic (admittedly, some months down the road).

All in all, this seems like a great solution to my problem. Again, I thank you guys for your assistance.

-Chris
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gingercat

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Re: First post -- First question

PostWed Jan 18, 2012 3:40 am

Re: MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller - $149 ????? Are they having a laugh? You can buy the necessary MIDBox bits for about a tenth of that price, even an Arduino with MIDI shield comes in considerably cheaper.
Regards,
Chris Blaylock
i5 4670k, 32GB RAM, Win7, 2xELO 1280x1024 Touchscreens, Focusrite Saffire, MIDISport 4x4
4 Manual Console, 32 R&C Pedalboard, 3xExpression, Solenoid coupler tabs
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engrssc

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Re: First post -- First question

PostWed Jan 18, 2012 3:57 am

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mdyde

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Re: First post -- First question

PostWed Jan 18, 2012 7:04 am

Re: MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller - $149 ????? Are they having a laugh? You can buy the necessary MIDBox bits for about a tenth of that price, even an Arduino with MIDI shield comes in considerably cheaper.


Probably depends whether you're into DIY electronics or want a plug-and-play unit.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Andrew Grahame

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Re: First post -- First question

PostWed Jan 18, 2012 7:19 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Martin. My suggestions were of the plug-and-play variety. There are plenty of Hauptwerkians out there whose electronics skills exceed those of others such as myself, and their approach and hardware options may well differ as a consequence.

The MIDI Solutions products certainly aren't cheap, but for those who lack the time and/or skill to put something similar together for themselves these items not only do the job but do it well.

There's also another detail which those living in the northern hemisphere may not realise. The bulk of hardware available, or specially made, for Hauptwerk use isn't available directly down here and must therefore be imported at substantial if not prohibitive cost. There is, however, an Australian agent for MIDI Solutions products.

In the end, it's a matter of the user finding what they can from where they are, matching it to their needs and budget and proceeding as they see fit.

Andrew
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cvmoreau

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Re: First post -- First question

PostThu Feb 09, 2012 11:16 pm

I'm finally off and running (and I can't seem to stop! :lol: ) I received my Hauptwerk package a few days ago (The Basic version, but that will probably change as I see the need for the capabilities of the Advanced). I immediately hooked up my electronic piano to use as a midi board, and had a blast for about three days. I also purchased a small table to use as a console table until I get a pedalboard which will require something larger, as well as the Behringer FCB1010 midi controller (Thank you, Andrew, for that suggestion. It works perfectly for my present needs!)

Today my two Classic Pro keyboards arrived (thank you, Darryl, for helping me with that crazy "expiration date" credit card problem, and for getting the keyboards to me so quickly). It's now well past my bedtime, and after hours of playing, I finally tore myself away so I can get some sleep. First, however, I wanted to thank the members of the forum for all your help -- both in answering a few questions of mine, but also for the many suggestions and answers to question you've offered to others which have been of great benefit to me.

So, I guess I won't be asking any additional questions under Free Edition Support, since I'm now a "legal" owner of the software. However, I'll still be following along, since I've seen quite a bit of good advice, here, for other Hauptwerk newbies like myself.

Thanks again, forum members,

-Chris
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Andrew Grahame

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Re: First post -- First question

PostFri Feb 10, 2012 1:45 am

Glad to hear it's working out well for you, Chris.

There's a trick to the FCB1010 which may not be apparent at first. When you power it up you will first need to press one of the pistons to initialise the unit. Until you do that the swell pedals won't respond. After a while it will become second nature at the start of a playing session.

Regarding a table, there are quite a few forum members - myself included - who have found that the Ikea "Galant" table does the job very well. It's the right size to hold a keyboard stack with room to spare for other hardware, the legs are height-adjustable and far enough apart to allow for a full-sized AGO pedalboard to fit underneath, and it's also possible to add a hanging shelf at the side to hold the computer. My own setup, on its Galant table, can be seen in a picture which I posted a few days ago to the "DIY organ consoles / MIDI" section of the forum.

Best wishes,

Andrew
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mdyde

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Re: First post -- First question

PostFri Feb 10, 2012 7:07 am

Thanks, Chris.

Hope you have lots of fun with your set-up!
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

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