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Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.
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jeremalian

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Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 8:22 am

I want to know if anyone on the board is aware of any software that can convert a 32hz sound say a 16' fagotto stop to a 32' 16 hz sound.
I am trying to strengthen the pedal division of the organ I am building for my church and I will like to add some strong 32' reed stops also.
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Penrhos1920

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 11:28 am

If it were a real pipe organ the poor man's version would be the play a 5th above the 16' at the same time. We have this on our church pipe organ and some notes work well, others not so good. The effect varies where you are in the church and I think you need to place the two pipes facing each other. Some analogue organs also use this technique, sometimes calling the stop 10 2/3rds. So for HW I'd just try play two 'pipes' at the same time.

But whatever you do, real or pseudo, you'll also need a really good subwoofer to get down that low. Many subs only go down to 80Hz, you'll need to go down to 30Hz or so.
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Purator

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 1:27 pm

Hi,

long time ago (in a galaxy - no, that was wrong), back in HW1-times, the program "Pipetune" was iirc quite popular. I found it at http://www.duemig-neufahrn.de/Orgel/PipeTune/. I think originally it was intended to have different temperaments, but it can also be used to create new stops from existing ones. I think this is exactly what you are looking for. But be aware: You are tuning everything - and this includes tracker noise, response, reverb.

Greetings
Purator
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telemanr

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 1:31 pm

For a 32’ low C you need a sub with substantial output down to 16Hz. And reeds down there sound awful unless they are simply added to a substantial pedal registration. I'd much rather hear a 32’ Diapason or even Bourdon.
Rob Enns
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ReinerS

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 1:48 pm

also be aware that simply resampling to an octave lower (which is all that that program would do) will DEFINITELY not make a 16' stop sound like a 32' stop. The transient times are wrong (don't scale linearly), the relations between the harmonics will be wrong etc.
I have found it practically impossible to make a decent sounding 32' stop from 16' samples. It just never sounds right.

Reiner
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TheOrganDoc

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 2:28 pm

When visiting one of the largest organs in the world in Philadelphia, years ago ,
I noticed a quite a number of 16' offset chests, "that had a 10 2/3 pipe", planted alongside each and every 16' pipe.
Never did get to analyze the, "result-ant"
Best wishes to all !
Mel
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
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telemanr

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 2:46 pm

We have such a resultant on our Casavant. I would say it adds a thickening and force to a full registration.
Rob Enns
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Mike 353

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostMon Jun 25, 2012 6:47 pm

ReinerS wrote:also be aware that simply resampling to an octave lower (which is all that that program would do) will DEFINITELY not make a 16' stop sound like a 32' stop. The transient times are wrong (don't scale linearly), the relations between the harmonics will be wrong etc.
I have found it practically impossible to make a decent sounding 32' stop from 16' samples. It just never sounds right.

Reiner

It can be done. It was done on the St. Georges Casavant, and Ken Bales did a credible job on it. He extended the Swell 16' Fagotto done into the 32' octave to use on the Pedal. He also extended some of the other ranks done an octave (all of those were 4' or above), and in each case the results were good.

It is possible to do this in Cool Edit, and probably in other audio editors. In Cool Edit, it is done without extending the examples, so the attack and release examples are not stretched out. I have done it that way and with Pipe Tune, and usually go with Pipe Tune myself. Instead of taking the 16' Octave and transposing the whole 12 notes down, I take the last two, C and C#, and use them, first going down one whole step for A# and B, then two whole steps for G# and A, etc.

In order for that process to work, both the C and C# have to be good notes. If you develope six notes from a bad one, you end up with seven bad notes.
Mike
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jeremalian

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Re: Software for convert a 16' sound into a 32' sound

PostTue Jun 26, 2012 4:51 am

I want to say a big thank you to every one for your responses. I have downloaded pipe tunes and I am looking to firing it up for the first time. I am very realistic in my expectations. I am also going to try the resultant bass approach. I am building my own 20cu feet sub woofer box turned at 16hz. I am using bass pro for the T-line design and I am almost sure it should do fine.
Thanks again

Jeremiah
Assistant Organist
Ereko Methodist church
Lagos Nigeria

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