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how to extend from f3 to g3

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.

how to extend from f3 to g3

Postby Bertram » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:38 am

Some sampesets have a compass of the manuals with 54 keys (C - f3). To use all the keys on my manuals, I would like to extend it to a compass of 56 keys (C - g3). Can anyone tell me what to do?
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Re: how to extend from f3 to g3

Postby Frank_VTPO » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:46 pm

Hello Bertram,

there is a program called "PipeTune" which You can download here:

So far I have only read about it, not tried it out, yet. I found some useful hints (unfortunately I forgot where, otherwise I would cite their origin):

Be aware that simply resampling to an octave lower (which is all that that program would do) will DEFINITELY not make a 16' stop sound like a 32' stop. The transient times are wrong (don't scale linearly), the relations between the harmonics will be wrong etc.
Instead of taking the 16' Octave and transposing the whole 12 notes down, I take the last two, C and C#, and use them, first going down one whole step for A# and B, then two whole steps for G# and A, etc.
In order for that process to work, both the C and C# have to be good notes. If you develope six notes from a bad one, you end up with seven bad notes.

In Your case You should transpose the upper two notes (e3 and f3) two semitones up; both originals have to be "good notes".

Tell me and the others of this forum, how the result is!

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Re: how to extend from f3 to g3

Postby Martin_Dümig » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:18 am


it is not a) necessary and b) not sufficient to retune samples for the missing pipes.

a) Hauptwerk has the ability to retune sampels by itself from neighbours. This must be programmed in the ODF (don't know whether CODM has this funcionality).

b) You have to expand the ODF or CODM as well to expand the keyboard-, stop- and pipe series.

So it is not so easy to be done. Especially point b is difficult, if you dont have editable versions of the orginal files.

Best regards - Martin
You can play Bach on every organ.
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Re: how to extend from f3 to g3

Postby Charles Braund » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:36 pm

Whilst it is true that resampling to an octave below or indeed to an octave above GENERALLY doesn't make a valid stop, there are always exceptions. I have successfully created many pitch shifted stops in this manner which sound absolutely correct in terms of transients, harmonics and releases.
However, it is very rare to find a stop that transposes successfully by pitch shifting alone and usually it is necessary to edit the harmonics and adjust the attack by various techniques in order to produce a seamless and natural continuation of the stop to its new extremes. However, it can be done.
It is possible also, to create a valid and convincing extended stop by using the bottom octave of another similar stop transposed down and then tacked on to the original with the break carefully matched. However, it does take time and lots of experimentation to achieve any valid result.
In reality, what is far more difficult is to duplicate a convincing continuation of the stop's stereo field regardless of how successful any pitch shifting might be. Fortunately many bottom octaves are on separate chests and in different positions so distinguishable breaks are less evident since they occur naturally in the first place. It might not be 100% authentic but it can be sufficiently close to be convincing.

All of what I have written above applies for the most part to dry samples or at least samples recorded fairly close with little ambience. When wet samples are used, regardless of any success in pitch shifting per se, the additional factor of a completely altered reverberation characteristic has to be taken into account and this will definitely make a convincing result hard to achieve.

However, going back to the original; question, the pitch shift here is not extreme and apart from merely pitch shifting the final note to accommodate the additional two notes, one method would be to take the E3 and let that serve as E3 and F3 then take F3 and let it serve as F#3 and G3. If it is in stereo and in sides then the different field will cover once the sides are swapped.

Alternatively, something like D#3 can be pitch shifted to the F# and E3 up to G3. this will create a more believable individual sample effect. Whether you wish to alter the length of the pitch shifted sample is up to you - sometimes it is effective but at other times it can introduce strange artifracts depending on the editing software used.
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