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How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.

How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby phjo » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:12 am

Hi,

I would like to detune first C# of Saint-Michel-de-Thiérache trompet and clairon from the pedaks to play a A0 instead (which is what one would have if such a key was present in the pedalboard).

I don't want to create a completely new organ definition just for those two notes, and I guess some hack might be possible. Any idea as to how ?

Would adjusting pitch of the samples with a wav file editor such as audacity work ? If it did, it would not be very high quality and would ruin the loops I suppose...

The easiest would be to trick Hauptwerk into believing the recorded wav are a third too high and let hauptwerk do the retuning job (although again it probably would have some artefacts due to the large extent of the retuning) but I have no idea where the pitch of the pipe is stored.

As for the voicing capabilities of Hauptwerk, it only allows for 50 cents deviation from the original, so it is quite insufficient for my need...

Any idea ?

phjo
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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby Martin_Dümig » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:56 pm

Hello phjo,

you could retune this samples with PipeTune. This program should preserve the loops as they are. I could not test it at the moment, since my Hauptwerk console is dismounted for some improvements.

Best regards - Martin
You can play Bach on every organ.
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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby phjo » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:09 pm

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your answer, and obviously, your software.

It was a bit complicated as I only own macs to test it, but with a virtual environment I could run your program and try to tune one pipe : the lowest C# of the pedal trompette.

It is a bit long, as I have to copy files from one environment to another, and as there are 8 files to adjust (front and rear samples, 3 releases) but it almost worked perfectly.

By almost, I mean there are bugs that occur quite randomly, such as the note sounding stronger at moments, as if suddenly a second pipe was added to the first, then even a third, then it goes back to normal in one or two steps, or the note continuing to resound much after the key was released.

The bugs are not easily reproducible, but they occur the most frequently when you repeat the note quite fast then hold it a bit longer.

Too bad, as it was almost perfect, but I'd like to understand what happens here, and of course correct it if that is possible, so I'd be glad if someone could enlighten me...

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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby Martin_Dümig » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:04 am

Hello phjo,

as soon as my System is working again I will try it myself. As I understood, you replaced the samples of the 037-C# by retuned samples for an 033-A to have this pitch available in pedal. Well - simply retuning a sample could be done on my other computer. I could only explain the effects you are telling if something with the release point did not work. If the release point is set near the beginning of the sample, you hear all the sample as a release - but does this sample set not have separate release samples?

The program PipeTune is some years old now and has only been upgraded one time to work also with 24bit samples (ordinarily only working with 16Bit samples, which was the only format for Hauptwerk1). There might be bugs in this program - lets see.

If I had known you are a MAC user, I would have offered to retune this samples and sent them to you. It would be better to write new programs in java to have them running on different platforms.

Best regards - Martin
You can play Bach on every organ.
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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby phjo » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:06 am

Hi Martin,

As far as I can tell, PipeTune did a fine job retuning the samples. What I can hear is consistent with the pure major third ratio I applied (0.8...)

and yes, I could find for this pipe 8 different wav files (with separate multiple releases in subfolders bearing such names as rel00190, rel00390, rel99999) and I ran PipeTune on each one with the same 0.8 ratio.

The bug I hear is quite weird. It happens the pipe begins to sound again after releasing the pedal, with no proper attack nor release.

It seems to affect only the front samples.

Actually, I might have found an explanation for this bug, which has very probably nothing to do with Hauptwerk nor PipeTune : there is something quite strange with one release I retuned : the file properties indicate it was not modified after april 2011, and its size is inconsistent with what it should be, as the sample should be longer, yet when I play it, it definitely sounds as an A0 release, not a C# one...

So size and date would indicate the file was not modified, yes it was. I've never seen such a thing...

What is stupid is that I made a copy of every file I adjusted except, it seems, for this one. (Or maybe I did but it disappeared !)

To be followed,

phjo
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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby phjo » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:39 am

Success !

I unrared Saint-Michel installation file to recover the release sample I lost, and retuned it.

Problem solved !

I'll tackle the clairon a bit later,

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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby Martin_Dümig » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:09 pm

Hello phjo,

is the problem with the long release solved too? Is the trumpet sounding as expected?

Best regards - Martin
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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby phjo » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:05 am

Hi Martin,

Yes, problem solved. I can understand Hauptwerk had some trouble with a wav file which size differed from the declaration in the preamble. As to how the filesystem got corrupted, my guess is that osx Finder got confused with a modified file within an opened folder in a distant nas, but modified through a session of windows xp running in a virtual environment (virtualbox).

The sound is very good, with the trumpet and clairon too, to which I applied the same process (making sure at every step osx Finder refreshed the content of the folder where the modified file was...)

Thanks again for your help,

phjo
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Re: How to change pitch of one or two pipes

Postby Martin_Dümig » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:35 am

Happy Hauptwerking!
You can play Bach on every organ.
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