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Problem with noise - please help

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.
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puciak

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Problem with noise - please help

PostFri Jul 14, 2006 5:17 pm

I have big noise in my recordings and removing that noise very damages quality. It is not a microphones noise. It is a blower noise, but originally that noise isn't so loud. Microphones are amplifying that sound. Pipes sounds very nice, but sounds of enviroment and blower are not naturally amplified. When I'm taking off headphones durging recording, the noise is many times silent. How I wrote, quality of sound of pipes is very good, but that noise is horrible. I sent my samples to some companies for noise removing, but they didn't have good results. There are no help/rescue for most of my new samples. I was trying with changing microphones characteristics, but it didn't help.
Before next recordings I want have a method for better recordings. If you want hear noise download it: http://www.hauptwerk.pl/nagranie.wav
I hope that you understand my problem and I hope You give me an advice.
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Charles Braund

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PostThu Jul 20, 2006 7:29 pm

I have sent you a private message.
However, in addition, please tell me the following-

1. what Microphones are you using ?
2. what polar pattern (if any) are the mics set to ?
3. what position are you recording from as in distance etc. ?
4. what editing software do you have ?
5. what sort of sample set are you trying to achieve ?

Best
Charles
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puciak

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PostFri Jul 21, 2006 11:54 am

1. sE Z5600
2. caroid (but with another polar patterns results are similar)
3. 3-6m from prospect
4. adobe audition and zero-x seamless looper
5. sort of sample set?
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jpgates

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noise in samples

PostFri Jul 21, 2006 12:30 pm

I have sent you a private message and processed one of the notes for you to listen to.

I processed it TWICE in Cool Edit Pro...once to remove the noise, and a second time to remove the digital noise CEP leaves behind.

look for a link in the private message.

i would recommend you record MUCH closer. you need a higher signal-to-noise ratio, i think. that is best captured by working the microphone close.

just my opinion!
regards,
jon
jacksonville, florida
soli Deo gloria!
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puciak

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PostFri Jul 21, 2006 3:28 pm

It isn't realistic, natural sound. I know that I need higher signal-to-noise ratio. How does method rest on with microphones "closed" ?
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jpgates

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room noise & unnatural sound

PostSun Jul 23, 2006 8:17 pm

when you say it isn't realistic, natural sound, i assume you are referring to the fact that filtering reduces some of the room ambiance. is that the case? in my opinion, the processed recording of the pipe does not sound unnatural. but the echo/natural accoustical reverberation is reduced along with most of the noise. make sense?

for anyone who wants to hear the lowest pipe after being produced/processed take a look and compare this file with the original recording:

http://www.crosscreekchurch.us/audio/na ... noised.wav

capturing the room comes with a price....especially when it is a noisy room. in recording my own sample sets (i will post some examples later this week and perhaps offer two sample sets for sale) i found that "dry" recordings typically work better than "wet" ones. this is indeed a matter of preference.

successfully capturing sound in a noisy room is a time-consuming VERY expensive undertaking that is best accomplished by professionals with professional (very expensive!) equipment. it is difficult for us to accomplish the same quality as the pros. i say that as someone who has almost 20-years experience in the broadcasting industry where much of our attention is devoted to capturing a crowd or a large instrument without the unwanted noise.

as for the microphone usage, i don't mean "close" as in "open & close", but rather "close" as in distance from the pipework. most of the noise i hear sounds like noise from the room. when listening to the organ "live", the human ear typically filters out most of these noises and they are not noticeable. recording devices, however, tend to amplify the room noise.

filtering out that noise electronically tends to also filter out some of the natural qualities of the sound you are trying to capture.

if your microphones are placed closer to the pipework, the sounds you want will be more prominent than the background noise/room noise. thus any electronic filters have a "cleaner" recording to process and will therefore take a smaller bite out of the natural sound you are attempting to capture. any electronic filtering available on the consumer level will have some degree of unwanted effect.

you might experiment with foam or accoustic products positioned behind the microphones to reduce the noise level in your recording.

you might also consider checking the way your microphone is secured in the microphone stand. there are specialty mic holders that reduce vibration and unwanted noise by isolating the microphone from the stand. these are sometimes referred to as "shock-mount."

see this site:

http://www.starmgc.com/micacc.html

i look forward to reading your response.

regards,

jon
jacksonville, florida
soli Deo gloria!
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puciak

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Re: room noise & unnatural sound

PostMon Jul 24, 2006 12:41 pm

It sounds unnatural. Do you have good headphones? I know that noise reduction reduces time of reverb and deforms sound when noise is loud.

"successfully capturing sound in a noisy room is a time-consuming VERY expensive undertaking that is best accomplished by professionals with professional (very expensive!) equipment."

It is not fault of equipement, but method of recording. How I say, microphones amplifies sounds from enviroment (because they're condenser).

"as for the microphone usage, i don't mean "close" as in "open & close", "but rather "close" as in distance from the pipework. most of the noise i hear sounds like noise from the room. when listening to the organ "live", the human ear typically filters out most of these noises and they are not noticeable. recording devices, however, tend to amplify the room noise."

Pipe sound in case (or near the case) isn't the same than this in front of case. So method e.g. with impulse reverb isn't good.

"if your microphones are placed closer to the pipework, the sounds you want will be more prominent than the background noise/room noise. thus any electronic filters have a "cleaner" recording to process and will therefore take a smaller bite out of the natural sound you are attempting to capture. any electronic filtering available on the consumer level will have some degree of unwanted effect. "

Can you send me link to these electronic filters?

"you might experiment with foam or accoustic products positioned behind the microphones to reduce the noise level in your recording."

I can change characteristics. Efects will be probably similar. Blower is recently in the organ and blower is recently the louder thing.

"you might also consider checking the way your microphone is secured in the microphone stand. there are specialty mic holders that reduce vibration and unwanted noise by isolating the microphone from the stand. these are sometimes referred to as "shock-mount."

see this site:

http://www.starmgc.com/micacc.html "

I don't think, that these things will help me, but I don't know it.

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