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Pitch detection

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.

Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:01 am

Hello all,
the next step in sampling our organ is to detect the pitch info, that Hauptwerk can use the samples. I have several questions about this:

1. Is LoopAuditioneer useful to do this job?
2. If the answer is "yes", what option in the batch routine should I choose:
2.1 Store FFT detected pitch info
2.2 Store HPS detected pitch info
2.3 Store time domain detected pitch info

Thanks in advance for your help :)

Edit: I have found the solution by myself: LoopAuditioneer allows to read out the pitch from the filename and writes the pitch information back to the file, and all in a batch-process :D
Best regards
Thomas

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Re: Pitch detection

Postby mdyde » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:43 am

Hello Thomas,

I have no experience with that software myself. However, note that it would only be valid to store the pitch in a file purely based on its filename if the sample file was already tuned exactly (presumably to A-440 equal temperament), otherwise you would potentially be storing slightly incorrect pitch information in the file, leading to pipes sounding at the wrong pitches, especially when a user selected different temperaments.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:09 pm

Hello Martin,
thank you for your advice. At the moment the organ is relatively good in tune, we have in mind that we have to make several pitch-corrections later.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:05 am

Now I try to correct the pitch of my samples, ideally with batch-processing. The Audition-plugin leads to frustration, so I'm looking for another tool.

Has someone experience with AutoTune from AnalogX?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:51 am

At the moment I'm using Martin's StopPreparationTool to tune our samples perfectly to concert pitch, and the results are really astonishing.
The tool provides increments for deviations from concert pitch. What do you recommend for a Voix Celeste?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby mdyde » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:17 pm

Hello Thomas,

I'll leave those more qualified than myself to answer that one -- there are quite a few (real) pipe organ builders, tuners, and historians amongst our forum members, so they could probably give you a much better answer than I could. (It probably also depends upon organ style and rank.) Books on (real) pipe organ constructions/design are a good source of reference for that sort of thing too (Audsley, etc.).
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 am

Where is the base pitch of an organ defined? I have tuned all of the stops to 440 Hz, but Hauptwerk indicates a base pitch of 438.2 Hz. When I try to modify this in HW, I get slight distortions at several stops.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby mdyde » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:22 pm

Hello Thomas,

There is a setting for it in the compiled organ definition ('full') format:

_General.AudioEngine_BasePitchHz: If left at its default of zero, Hauptwerk will attempt to determine the base pitch automatically from the sample files, reading the mean pitch of all A-notes (for all ranks that the user hasn't disabled). Only set this to a non-zero value if you are certain that the value you specify is exactly correct, since an incorrect value would lead to the organ sounding at the wrong pitch (and probably being out of tune with other instruments and/or any real pipework).


... but no equivalent within the CODM organ definition format. (The CODM always compiles that value to zero.) Perhaps you have some celeste/detuned ranks (or sound effects) with 'A' notes that are confusing the automatic pitch determination.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:28 pm

Thanks, Martin.

I will look at this.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:41 pm

After loading the sampleset without the choir organ HW recognizes the pitch exactly at 440 Hz. I have to re-record that organ, the topic samples are too bad.

Thanks for your help :D
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby mdyde » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:26 am

Thanks, Thomas.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:43 pm

Now I have a new problem:

In our organ we have a 1'-stop whose highest note is 93-A, so the resulting MIDI-Note was 129. Loop Auditioneer is not able to write this pitch info, it's range ends at 127. Obviously Adobe Audition also cannot recognize the correct info, the highest possible note is G9.

I have used Martin's tool to detect the pitch info, too, but the result is the same, there are pitch infos at -128 and -127 for the highest two notes.

Is there a possibility to correct these values or do we have to modify the CODM?

I apologize for my English and thank you in advance.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby mdyde » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:01 am

Hello Thomas,

That's an awkward one because Microsoft's WAV file format only allows values in the range 0-127 for smpl.MIDIUnityNote ( https://sites.google.com/site/musicgapi/technical-documents/wav-file-format#smpl ). Strictly speaking, smpl.MIDIUnityNote was originally intended to indicate "the musical note at which the sample will be played at it's original sample rate" (i.e. the key to which it would be assigned on a sampler's keyboard, with no concept of rank base pitch or absolute sample pitch per-se), but in the absence of any other means to specify pitch within the WAV format, Hauptwerk normally interprets that value as specifying the absolute pitch (based on an 8' rank), which is fine for everything likely to be found on a pipe organ except for the top 5 notes of a (61-note compass) 1' rank.

For such a rank, the only thing you can reasonably do is to store its pitches an octave lower, and then set the CODM.Rank pitch attributes to compensate by an octave.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby tf11972 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:54 am

Thank you, Martin for your quick reply and explanation :D

The other idea I have: I leave these notes out and Hauptwerk complements them basing on the CODM. Due to their high frequencies they are hardly hearable.
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Re: Pitch detection

Postby mdyde » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:37 am

Thanks, Thomas.

tf11972 wrote:The other idea I have: I leave these notes out and Hauptwerk complements them basing on the CODM. Due to their high frequencies they are hardly hearable.


If you preferred (instead of changing the WAV and playback pitches), you could either completely leave out that top octave, both in terms of samples and of the virtual rank's compass, or do the same thing but add an extra StopRank entry just for the top octave that played the octave below again from the top octave of the keyboard (i.e. so that the top octave repeats on that particular rank, with a broken compass like a mixture). I wouldn't advise getting Hauptwerk to repitch the top sample more than a couple of semitones or so in real-time, since you might introduce some aliasing (unless you were careful also to filter out sufficient high frequencies from the top sample in an audio editor to avoid that, allowing for the required degree of pitch shifting).
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