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Real orchestral instruments

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.

Real orchestral instruments

Postby Rimokatolik » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:23 am

Has anyone recorded real orchestral instruments?

I am new to Hauptwerk, but I saw that Hauptwerk can extend range based on existing one. Real strings (like cello) have different timbre and effect then pipes that emulate them. When I toured Rogers factory a few years back I heard sounds of guitars and various other instruments played on organ in sound room. That means that has been done, I just have not seen anything for Hauptwerk.

I am sorry if this has been discussed before.
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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby amun » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:53 pm

Are you talking about this instrument, which is IMO a syntheziser fed with hundreds of low quality instrument samples in organ console disguise: :shock:
https://youtu.be/kXH8z9T8Jvo
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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby NickNelson » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:50 pm

Rimokatolik wrote:Has anyone recorded real orchestral instruments?


Almost certainly, but they won't generally feature in Hauptwerk sample sets which are almost exclusively about real organs.

Many organs offer 'orchestral' sounds but only if they are produced using pipes and wind presssure. The
exception would be a very limited range of percussion instruments which are real, but played pneumatically.

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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby Rimokatolik » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:47 pm

Well, that's my question. I understand that real pipe organs imitate orchestral sounds using pipes, but digital organs (I mentioned example of Rodgers that I heard) have recorded real instruments and play the using organ keyboard. When using VPO there is no requirement for sound files to record real organ pipes, you can record anything you want. When we have such amazing software and opportunity, wouldn't it be better to record real orchestral instruments (at least strings) in addition to whatever else there is?
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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby Rimokatolik » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:53 pm

amun wrote:Are you talking about this instrument, which is IMO a syntheziser fed with hundreds of low quality instrument samples in organ console disguise: :shock:
https://youtu.be/kXH8z9T8Jvo
Rgds,
amun :wink:


Ha, ha, this was funny, I have not seen something like that. But no, I really like organ. It is just that although pipe organ is king of the instruments (Mozart) there is still range of sound that orchestra can product that pipe organ cannot. Well, pipe organ will never be able, but digital organ and especially VPO (in our interest) can.
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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby mdyde » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:55 am

Hello Rimokatolik,

I'm not aware of any sample sets in Hauptwerk format that include real string/orchestral instruments currently. Hauptwerk is really designed and optimised specifically for modelling organ sounds as realistically as possible; generic sampler software such as Native Instruments Kontakt/Komplete, or Steinberg's HALion, or hardware sound modules such as Roland's Integra 7, are likely to better suited to modelling real string/orchestral instruments realistically.

You can configure MIDI output from Hauptwerk to control such external software/hardware sound sources via the 'Organ settings | Advanced MIDI ...' screens in Hauptwerk.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby NickNelson » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:26 am

Rimokatolik wrote: there is still range of sound that orchestra can product that pipe organ cannot. Well, pipe organ will never be able, but digital organ and especially VPO (in our interest) can.


Yes, but as Martin explained, HW (and other Virtual Pipe Organ software) is specifically written and optimised to reproduce Pipe Organs.

In particular, the basic 'tone' of a pipe is reproduced. There are some more subtle effects such as a choice of attack and release sample that more accurately represent the real behaviour of organ pipes, but the reality is that once the pipe has 'settled down' the tone is effectively constant.

Orchestral instruments, especially strings but also other instruments, are much more expressive (not to be confused with 'expression' in the organ specific sense. By this I mean that a cellist, for example, can and will change the tone, loudness and possibly pitch of a single note, while it is playing, in a variety of interesting and subtle ways by altering the bowing, finger position and so on to suit what he or she (and possibly the composer and/or conductor as well) thinks best. None if this can be accurately reproduced in a real pipe organ or VPO.

And then there is pizzicato playing.

The point is that the realistic reproduction of orchestral instruments involves a fundamentally different set of tone-production and control problems from those of pipe organs.

It is true that one could, and people have, recorded single tones from orchestral instruments which can be played back, faithfully, from a keyboard but they just won't sound convincing (or even particularly interesting) in my opinion.

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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby csw900 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:45 am

Standard MIDI samples can contain samples of real musical instruments and when one,
two or three are played together in a tune on a normal midi player they can sound quite realistic.

However I have tried and always failed to play orchestral music using midi. For example
I have several Mozart orchestral pieces in midi format but when played the combined sound
of the instruments is greatly inferior to the sound produced by a real orchestra.

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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby scottherbert » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:21 pm

Hello Rimokatolik,

I just recalled a sampleset by Van Den Akker, who can be found on the pcorgan.com website, has a sampled cornet, the wind blown brass instrument, available either with a hohlflote, or with a more complete full organ. His samples sound quite convincing!

~Scott
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Re: Real orchestral instruments

Postby TheOrganDoc » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:38 pm

If anyone here want to Play electronically sampled Orchestral Instruments,
There are Many (Single Keyboard Sampled Keyboards), that will play from Midi,
and could be Linked to a Hauptwerk Console !

If that person does not like to play Pipe Organ Sounds, as much as I Do ! :roll:
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