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White / Pink Noise

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.

White / Pink Noise

Postby chr.schmitz » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:04 am

A friend (tf11972) and I are currently working on our 1st sample set. From time to time the organ sound gets overlayed by a white or pink noise sounding for 1 or 2 seconds. This is the only sample set, where this occurs. I never had this problem before. It does not occur, when playing other sets (even for hours).

Thomas uses HW for Windows. He does not observe this issue. I am running a Mac with macOS 10.12.2 (all updates). This is a computer, which is only used for the organ. Therefore only crucial drivers (dongle, touch screen) are installed. No further programs are running in the background.

Any idea, how we could tackle this issue?

Thanks for any advice!

All the best,
Chris
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby mdyde » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:11 pm

Hello Chris,

My first thought would be that you have at least one loop or marker that's invalid (e.g. pointing past the end of the sample) in at least one of the WAV files, causing an arbitrary section of memory to be played beyond the end of the sample. Hauptwerk tries to check and correct/report those types of WAV format errors, but perhaps there are still some cases it doesn't catch.

What audio editor/application did you use last to save the WAV files?
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby chr.schmitz » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:19 pm

Martin,

thank you very much for this quick response. I forwarded your answer (and question) to Thomas. I know that he is currently experimenting with different tools.

In the meantime I found probably the culprit rank. We will further analyze the corresponding WAV files.

Chris
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby mdyde » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:22 am

Thanks, Chris.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby chr.schmitz » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:32 am

I think that we found the culprit. It was a single note.

However, we have a weird finding: it seems to be only an issue on a Mac. If I analyze the WAV file with an audio editor, I clearly see the white noise starting at 2.154 seconds (screen shot: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/296 ... enShot.jpg). Thomas tells me, that this issue is not visible on a PC. And HW on a PC handles the file without any anomalies.

The file has been last saved with LoopAuditioneer on a Windows machine.

I would appreciate, if you could look into the WAV file, which you can find here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2961998/043-G.rar

Maybe you have an idea, what went wrong and why this is an issue on a Mac but not on a PC.

Thanks in advance!
Chris
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby evertjan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:57 am

Chris

it's an issue with the audio editor in Windows.

This is how the Adobe Audition CS5.5 editor (Windows version) shows the wav file.
http://imgur.com/zKmttCS
The same you have on your Mac.


Edit: Audacity has the save view with pink noise
Edit2: img link changed
Last edited by evertjan on Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby chr.schmitz » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:30 pm

Thank you very much for the screen shot. We will do further research to tackle the problem.
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby evertjan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:32 pm

Maybe you can contact the creator Lars Palo: http://familjenpalo.se/contact
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby tf11972 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:21 pm

To exclude any hardware issues, now I played the file on my Windows-Notebook with Realtek-Sound (I have a Steinberg-Interface on my Work-PC and a RME-Interface on my HW-PC), but also there it is completely unremarkable.

Last night I edited the rank files, because they were one second too long. I didn't touch any loop. And as a result, the issue is gone.

Very strange :roll:
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Thomas

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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby evertjan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:57 pm

Thomas

in the 043-G.WAV example file there are no loops visible (they are gone ...??) !!

It's better that you cut the sample at the right length and then create the loops. Otherwise it is possible that you may cut an end marker of a loop.

I also use a Realteck audio card on my Work-PC
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby tf11972 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:08 pm

That's the joke:

Chris extra sent the defect file to me and I saw 6 loops and could play it without any problem. So we wonder about this issue.
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby evertjan » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:31 pm

I have re-downloaded the file and test again. Same result. Noise and no loops visible in the Audition audio editor.
http://imgur.com/f8ZQOnS

Maybe another forum member will do an test, playing this file in an audio player (a listening test)

Edit: IMG link changed
Last edited by evertjan on Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby mdyde » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:11 am

chr.schmitz wrote:Maybe you have an idea, what went wrong and why this is an issue on a Mac but not on a PC.


Hello Chris,

Something in the WAV file's format must be (at least partly) invalid. I'll need to leave that one for you to resolve with the maker of the software that was used to save the sample, I'm afraid.
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby chr.schmitz » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:21 am

Martin,

thank you very much! It has become clear that something happened when the WAV file was saved. It is working now. I know where to search in the future. And this issue gave me new insights how HW works :D

When the problem first occurred and I filed the request I had no idea, whether something was wrong with my operating system (core audio), with my HW installation, with this individual sample set or with a single or multiple ranks. I even did not think about the possibility that a single note may be the culprit as I had the impression that the problem occurred randomly.

Again, thank you very much for your unremitting efforts to support your users!

Best, Chris
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Re: White / Pink Noise

Postby mdyde » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:22 am

Thanks, Chris.

You're very welcome. Glad you have it resolved now.
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