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Question on organ config file

Sampling pipe organs and turning them into something you can play in Hauptwerk.

Question on organ config file

Postby tf11972 » Sun May 07, 2017 11:36 am

To improve the sound of our sampleset, I have made several volume settings via the voicing tool which we want to render into the ODF. Hence I exported the config file and when we had a new test ODF, I imported the file into the config folder and loaded the organ again. But all values are on zero.
Due to the subtle changes, I don't know if my changes have taken effect again, I have the impression, but cannot reproduce it.
Also we have generated a non-compacted config file to analyze the changes, but all level values are zero again.

If there are no changes, I have a backup of the small config file with the voicings. How do I import it into Hauptwerk?

I hope you can follow my weird explanations. Thanks in advance.
Best regards
Thomas

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Re: Question on organ config file

Postby mdyde » Mon May 08, 2017 8:26 am

Hello Thomas,

My apologies for a slightly delayed reply. (Sunday nights are a particularly busy time for support for us.) Could you clarify?:

Hence I exported the config file


By that, do you mean that you just made a copy/backup of the OrganIDNNNNNNConfig.OrganConfig_Hauptwerk_xml file itself manually (e.g. using Windows Explorer)?

tf11972 wrote:and when we had a new test ODF ... and loaded the organ again


Do you mean that you had made some changes with your CODM ODF and then re-loaded it using 'Design tools | Load custom organ'?

If so, had you changed the OrganID in the ODF (which would make it appear to be a completely separate organ to Hauptwerk, with completely independent settings and voicing), and/or had you changed any of the RankIDs? (The latter would be likely to invalidate/reset any voicing.)

Also, when you loaded the organ, had you used any of the reset options on the design options screen?

Or are you referring to having made some changed manually in a full-format ODF (as opposed to a CODM ODF)?

tf11972 wrote:I imported the file into the config folder


By that do you mean that you just copied your previously-saved OrganIDNNNNNNConfig.OrganConfig_Hauptwerk_xml file back into Config0-OrganSettings folder (e.g. using Windows Explorer), replacing the file that was previously there (which would presumably have been the same file)?

Or do you mean that you tried to make some edits manually (e.g. with a text/XML editor) within the OrganIDNNNNNNConfig.OrganConfig_Hauptwerk_xml file? Or perhaps that you had changed the OrganID in your ODF, so you had tried to change the name of the OrganIDNNNNNNConfig.OrganConfig_Hauptwerk_xml file to reflect the new OrganID number?

(Trying to make any edits manually within the organ-configuration files definitely isn't supported, I'm afraid -- they're internal to Hauptwerk, and undocumented.)
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Question on organ config file

Postby tf11972 » Mon May 08, 2017 9:57 am

Hello Martin,
I try to answer as good as I can:

First I made a copy of the config-file to a network-folder and let the file completely untouched. Then I loaded the unmodified ODF by resetting voicing and MIDI, and additionally loaded the organ with rank... to build up a new cache. After that I copied the backup back into the config folder. While I didn't notice any sound changes, I loaded he organ with rank... again. But I also didn't hear any effect.

Today I voiced the organ again, saved the settings and copied the config-file again into the network-folder. I hope that works.
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Thomas

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Re: Question on organ config file

Postby mdyde » Tue May 09, 2017 6:18 am

Hello Thomas,

tf11972 wrote:Then I loaded the unmodified ODF


There are three possible cases:

1. If the ODF wasn't modified, then there would be no need for any of things you're trying to do (e.g. trying to move/hack files manually) -- just avoid selecting the option to reset the voicing when you load the ODF via the design tools options screen. Your existing voicing would then still be present anyway.

2. If the ODF *was* modified, but the ODF modifications didn't involve changes to the OrganID or to the RankIDs of existing (voiced) ranks then they wouldn't invalidate existing voicing, so (as in case 1) you wouldn't need to hack anything or do anything special anyway -- just avoid selecting the option to reset the voicing when you load the ODF via the design tools options screen, and your existing voicing would then be retained.

3. If the ODF *was* modified, and if the ODF modification *did* change the OrganID or change the RankIDs of existing (voiced) ranks then trying to move Hauptwerk's settings files around wouldn't be sufficient to help anyway, since the settings would still be tied to the previous OrganID and RankIDs.

Hence in none of those three possible cases would trying to move/hack settings files actually help with anything related to retaining voicing. Hauptwerk's settings files are internal to Hauptwerk, and Hauptwerk is likely to do things with them that you wouldn't be able to predict (e.g. overwrite/restore them as and when it needs to, and they're linked to its cache regeneration mechanisms and other things, and they're completely internal and undocumented, and they can and do change between versions), so please just avoid trying to do anything to them manually -- you should be able to do what you actually need to anyway via the options on the design tools screen.

In general, I'd suggest waiting until your ODF's structure (OrganID and all RankIDs) are finalised before starting any work on voicing the sample set, so that there would then never be any issue with ODF changes affecting the voicing (i.e. OrganID or RankIDs). Then once Chris has imported your voicing into the final compiled full-format ODF you would simply select the design option to reset your own previous voicing, so that you would be hearing the (by that point default) voicing from Chris' new ODF.
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Martin.

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Re: Question on organ config file

Postby chr.schmitz » Tue May 09, 2017 8:19 am

Hello Martin,

Thomas did not hack anything. He just wanted to provide me his voicing changes to give me the chance to move them into the ODF (using the calculation, you provided me some time ago). However, the first config files, he sent to me, did not contain any changes, e.g. all amplitude levels were 0.

There are three possible cases: 1-2-3


The ODF may or may not be modified, but UniqueOrganID and all RankIDs were always the same.

In general, I'd suggest waiting until your ODF's structure (OrganID and all RankIDs) are finalised before starting any work on voicing the sample set, so that there would then never be any issue with ODF changes affecting the voicing (i.e. OrganID or RankIDs).


This is exactly what we did. The main organ structure has not been changed for months. Recently I mainly added functionality directly to the ODF, which is (currently) not supported by the CODM format, e.g. custom keyboards and a crescendo pedal.

Unfortunately my console is currently on holidays in the UK ;-). Therefore it is a little bit harder for me to double check Thomas' issues. Hopefully by the end of the month I will have my console back. With my developer notebook I have the impression, that I do not have these issues. The question came up, whether this may be an OS issue (Thomas runs HW under Windows 10 and I have a Mac), something has been corrupted with his HW installation or something is wrong, which I just do not realize.

Thanks for your patience!

All the best,
Chris
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Re: Question on organ config file

Postby mdyde » Tue May 09, 2017 8:39 am

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the additional information.

chr.schmitz wrote:Thomas did not hack anything. He just wanted to provide me his voicing changes to give me the chance to move them into the ODF (using the calculation, you provided me some time ago). However, the first config files, he sent to me, did not contain any changes, e.g. all amplitude levels were 0.


That's all no problem, of course. However, my understanding from Thomas' description was that the specific issue was that he was trying to move the previous settings file back into Hauptwerk, overwriting Hauptwerk's current/active settings file, and that it was that process of trying to move the settings back in manually (which is the specific thing that wouldn't be supported and might interfere with what Hauptwerk is doing) that didn't appear to be doing what he expected.

If the config file that Thomas sent you had no voicing information in it then I think that somehow he must either accidentally have reset the voicing, or perhaps sent you the file whilst he still had the organ loaded in Hauptwerk and before his on-screen voicing changes had been saved to the file (which would always happen when an organ unloads, if not before), or perhaps he simply sent you the wrong file (or a non-current version of it).

chr.schmitz wrote:The ODF may or may not be modified, but UniqueOrganID and all RankIDs were always the same.


chr.schmitz wrote:This is exactly what we did. The main organ structure has not been changed for months. Recently I mainly added functionality directly to the ODF, which is (currently) not supported by the CODM format, e.g. custom keyboards and a crescendo pedal.


In that case, my 'case 2' should apply, and Thomas should just need to reset his voicing once he has the new ODF from you that contains his imported previous voicing.

chr.schmitz wrote:The question came up, whether this may be an OS issue (Thomas runs HW under Windows 10 and I have a Mac), something has been corrupted with his HW installation or something is wrong, which I just do not realize.


It definitely wouldn't be an OS issue, or an installation issue (as long as Thomas hasn't tried to do anything manually to Hauptwerk's active settings files, e.g. replace them from saved copies).

Could I perhaps leave you and Thomas to work together on these issues, since I think they're procedural issues between the two of you, rather than anything actually behaving incorrectly within Hauptwerk itself?
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Question on organ config file

Postby chr.schmitz » Tue May 09, 2017 8:42 am

Hello Martin,

Could I perhaps leave you and Thomas to work together on these issues, since I think they're procedural issues between the two of you, rather than anything actually behaving incorrectly within Hauptwerk itself?


Of course! I agree! This is something, we did not know, when the problems started.

Thanks for your support!

Best regards,
Chris
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Re: Question on organ config file

Postby mdyde » Tue May 09, 2017 8:57 am

Thanks, Chris.
Best regards,
Martin.

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