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30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitger)

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30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitger)

Postby aah » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:18 pm

I've released an album of my music recorded with the Organ Art Media Bosch/Schnitger Vollenhove organ. Some of the tracks were posted on Contrebombarde as I was making the recordings.

https://aaronandrewhunt.bandcamp.com/album/30-variations-on-an-aria-by-johann-sebastian-bach-full-album

Thanks to OAM for providing such a great instrument!

Best,
Aaron
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby ReinerS » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:58 pm

Congratulations on a nice project!

One comment regarding your bandcamp site though: You may want to give credit to the sample set or at least mention that it is not recorded on the real organ. You posted it here, but you omitted that information on the linked page. Also, why not use an image of the Vollenhove organ?

Best regards
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby sesquialtera » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:10 pm

Thank you for this link !
Well done Bach-like pieces, impressive job !
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby OAM » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:02 pm

Hello Mr. Hunt,

you did a great job, of course, but please note that due to the OAM license agreement, no commercial recordings are allowed with the sets.
So please remove the purchase options on your site and please declare these recordings as produced with the virtual Bosch-Schnitger organ.

Thanks for your understanding
Prof. Helmut Maier
OrganArt Media Sound Engineering
D-88662 Überlingen/Lake Constance
http://www.organartmedia.com
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby aah » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:22 pm

please note that due to the OAM license agreement, no commercial recordings are allowed with the sets. So please remove the purchase options on your site and please declare these recordings as produced with the virtual Bosch-Schnitger organ.


Hi Prof. Maier,

Thank you; I do know about the license, and you will see that there is no cost for the recording. Any money anyone wants to give me for it is not a charge, it is a donation. I am not selling the recording. So this is not against the license. I will add notice that it is a sampled instrument. Thank you again for making the sample set. It's absolutely wonderful.

Greetings,
AAH
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby aah » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:27 pm

ReinerS wrote:Congratulations on a nice project!
... why not use an image of the Vollenhove organ?


Thanks. The reason the image is of the Flentrop in Hamburg and not the Vollenhove is because the Flentrop image was used as the cover for the score (book) which has been published already for a couple of years. See https://zwillinge.zentral.zone/katalog?en#ZV986400 I was just making continuity between the score and the recording. Also, I took the picture of the Flentrop myself, and I did not want to use a photograph which doesn't belong to me. But I might change it.

Cheers,
AAH
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby OAM » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:35 pm

Thanks for clarification.
Please continue with the exact declaration as virtual instrument productions.

The increasing number of commercial use with virtual organs is one of the reasons, that more and more organ committees unfortunately don't allow sampling of very famous organs.
Prof. Helmut Maier
OrganArt Media Sound Engineering
D-88662 Überlingen/Lake Constance
http://www.organartmedia.com
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby aah » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:59 pm

OAM wrote:Thanks for clarification.
Please continue with the exact declaration as virtual instrument productions.


Yes, by all means, I'm happy to do that. And I also promise to be more circumspect with any future releases!

I have a question. Has the license at the OrganArt website (this page https://www.organartmedia.com/de/lizenzvereinbarung ) recently changed? Because just to be sure about all of this I did read the license agreement again, first in the original German and then in English translation. I was surprised to find that there is no language in that license specifically forbidding commercial recordings. It only says that published recordings of any kind are forbidden without special permission. I had assumed that Contrebombarde members were given this permission already, which is why initially I was rather lax in the way I presented the recording. But, in fact I couldn't find such a user agreement anywhere on the Contrebombarde website either. I could have sworn I did read about a restriction on commercial recordings using OAM sample sets somewhere before, but it seems now this is nowhere to be found. I bought my sample set before your website was updated to its current form, so maybe this is the reason? I also checked the booklet with the DVDs of the sample set I own, and did not find such wording there either.

OAM wrote:The increasing number of commercial use with virtual organs is one of the reasons, that more and more organ committees unfortunately don't allow sampling of very famous organs.


What a pity! I must confess, I can't find the logic in that. But I'm happy to release recordings of my work without a price tag.

Frohes Fest!
AAH
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby OrganoPleno » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:57 pm

aah wrote:I was surprised to find that there is no language in that license specifically forbidding commercial recordings. It only says that published recordings of any kind are forbidden without special permission.


Let's think this one through carefully now. If Published Recordings of ANY KIND are explicitly FORBIDDEN... where do you see this as not forbidding "commercial recordings"? I guess it would work only if your "commercial recordings" are never PUBLISHED! But that would kind of defeat the purpose then, wouldn't it.

So it all comes back to "Special Permission". If you need it... Ask for it!
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby aah » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:53 pm

OrganoPleno wrote:Let's think this one through carefully now. If Published Recordings of ANY KIND are explicitly FORBIDDEN... where do you see this as not forbidding "commercial recordings"? I guess it would work only if your "commercial recordings" are never PUBLISHED! But that would kind of defeat the purpose then, wouldn't it.

So it all comes back to "Special Permission". If you need it... Ask for it!


There is a reason to ask about the language of the license and if it has been changed. If it is forbidding *commercial* recordings (which is what I remember reading when I bought the sample set) that is a very different rule from forbidding *all* recordings (which seems ridiculous given Contrebombarde). Contrebombarde only makes sense if the license forbids only commercial recordings.

1) The rules stated in the OAM license as I remember it: no commercial recordings permitted. I may just be remembering that wrong.
2) The rules stated in the OAM license are as of now: no recordings of any kind without permission.
3) According to (2), all the recordings using OAM sample sets published on Contrebombarde (and YouTube) violate the license.

Nobody asks for permission to publish music using OAM sample sets on Contrebombarde. This includes linked videos published on YouTube. Recordings using OAM sample sets are being published all the time on the internet. There is no statement on Contrebombarde about such violation, nothing in the license about exceptions for Contrebombarde, etc. This is why I am asking if the license changed from forbidding specifically *commercial* recordings to forbidding *all* recordings.

For the record, I think forbidding recordings is ridiculous and unfair and has no justification. But my personal opinion on this doesn't matter. Whatever the rules are, I'll abide by them. And that is the whole point here. As far as I knew, I was playing by the rules by releasing an album for free. Then I found out by re-reading the license, that apparently I'm not allowed to do even that. But Herr Maier said it was okay. And it's okay on Contrebombarde. And YouTube. ? Hm. So that is the reason to ask to have this clarified.
Last edited by aah on Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby sjkartchner » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:48 pm

aah wrote:
OrganoPleno wrote:Let's think this one through carefully now. If Published Recordings of ANY KIND are explicitly FORBIDDEN... where do you see this as not forbidding "commercial recordings"? I guess it would work only if your "commercial recordings" are never PUBLISHED! But that would kind of defeat the purpose then, wouldn't it.

So it all comes back to "Special Permission". If you need it... Ask for it!


So you are telling us now, that ALL published recordings are forbidden. But prof. Maier, you publish recordings regularly on Contrebombarde yourself. And so have thousands of other organists. So why is there no statement at the Contrebombarde website referencing your license stating under what conditions it is okay to publish these recordings? Otherwise you are violating your own license, aren't you? And so have hundreds of other organists already violated the license. Which would be absurd. If you want people to recognise your license agreement to the letter, as it seems you do, then it would be in your interest to clarify this situation for Contremombarde members. Otherwise, I'm sorry but all this is rather misleading.


Just an fyi, OrganoPleno is not Prof. Maier who responded in previous posts above as OAM.
Stan Kartchner, Tucson, AZ USA
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Re: 30 Variations on an Aria by J.S.Bach (OAM-Bosch/Schnitge

Postby aah » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:00 pm

sjkartchner wrote:Just an fyi, OrganoPleno is not Prof. Maier who responded in previous posts above as OAM.


Thank you very much for the correction! I'm glad that response was not from OAM, as I was very susprised by the tone taken there. So I will now edit my response ...
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