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New Article - Voicing

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New Article - Voicing

Postby dwood » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:28 pm

New article up on the Barde on Hauptwerk Audio - voicing sample sets.

http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/home/view_cat/cat/1/sort/16/order/last_modified/limit/4
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Re: New Article - Voicing

Postby NickNelson » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:00 am

Dear Darryl,

Thanks for this interesting article.

I have avoided playing around with the voicing since it has always seemed to me to be a good way of spending an awful lot of time getting into a real pickle. Your advice tempts me to have a go, particularly as my (smallish) room has several troublesome resonances I would like to deal with.

Thinking about it, having identified which particular notes are causing problems would it be possible to semi-automatically level these notes across all ranks of the same pitch? I realise that the harmonic content of ranks of the same pitch differs somewhat (otherwise they wouldn't be different ranks) but as a first approximation it would save a lot of time.

In effect, this would be a 'by note' voicing rather than 'by pipe'.

Nick
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Re: New Article - Voicing

Postby dwood » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:17 am

Hey Nick,

Well, the cool thing is that you already know which notes are troublesome. You'll still have to work it rank by rank since I don't know of a way to level a frequency. However, start levelling the notes out starting 4 or 5 notes below the trouble spot. Nothing's saying you have to do the whole rank. Just level out the area that's a problem for now.

Actually, saying I don't know how to level a frequency isn't quite true. If you are only using stereo output, there is software like ARC System 2 (Advanced Room Correction) which will zero out your 2 channel output for sure.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008VICNTO/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B008VICNTO&linkCode=as2&tag=claorgwor-20&linkId=LJVSUETVOHCXGMAW

It's a stripped down version of the software used in the pro-audio world and geared more for home studios. I haven't really played with it in a multi-channeled system. So, I don't know if it will work for that. I'm not sure if it introduces any latency at all. However, someone reminded me of it yesterday and it's always been an interesting solution.

Note that using something like ARC 2 is going to zero out the room for standing waves but it won't change the relative volumes between notes in a rank if they aren't regulated evenly. This is why I suggested levelling after doing room correction.
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Re: New Article - Voicing

Postby CHRIS 037 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:00 pm

Something to keep in mind when it comes to leveling or voicing an HW organ:

I find that the places that are too loud or quiet in a smaller room, depend on where you are in the room. When I process my setup (with multiple speakers) and get things sounding great from my console (to the right side of the room) there are then pipes that are way too loud or soft when seated out in front of the speakers.

So I have created two HW config.'s, one for each case. If I have visitors that sit out front of the speakers or I wish to record the organs with microphones, I use the out-front voicing. When I just play for my own pleasure, I switch to the far-right voicing.

These differences can be very large. Listening to my out-front settings while seated at the console have a few pipes that are WAY too loud, and a few that can hardly be heard. Likewise, listening to the console setup from out front has a noticeable ragged sound.

For me, the marvel is that Hauptwerk has all the tools build in to correct this sort of thing! It takes time and some effort, but it is really worth it. Thanks Martin and Brett! :D

I would think that pipe organs in smaller rooms, or organs where the organist sits right up close to the pipes, must have similar problems---with very little that can be done about it(?).

Leo Chris. :)
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Re: New Article - Voicing

Postby dwood » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:02 pm

This is an interesting point.

Am I correct that you are the one who has a relatively small room and 50 channels (i.e speakers)? If so, then what you're describing totally makes sense. You're proportionately so much closer to some speakers than others at any given time and where ever you move within the room that it will definitely change the listening experience.

This would not happen in a large room with the same amount of speakers or in a small room with 6-8 channels and the speakers in a line above the player. At any given time, the listener would be approximately an equal distance away from the sound sources.

So, speaker placement relative to the size of the room plays a part in the overall sound. Good point.
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Re: New Article - Voicing

Postby CHRIS 037 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:17 pm

Yes, my system consists of 90 speakers spread across the long wall of the room, about 22 x 14 x 7.5 feet. There are seven groups of twelve speakers each, two large full-range Pedal speakers, and a few additional speakers for the reverb. Since most speakers are 5" with tweeter, powered speakers, they don't load the room too much with low end, which can be a terrible heavy sound and really excite the bass nodes.
Leo Chris. :)
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Re: New Article - Voicing

Postby Jan Loosman » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:01 pm

dwood wrote:Hey Nick,

Well, the cool thing is that you already know which notes are troublesome. You'll still have to work it rank by rank since I don't know of a way to level a frequency. However, start levelling the notes out starting 4 or 5 notes below the trouble spot. Nothing's saying you have to do the whole rank. Just level out the area that's a problem for now.

Actually, saying I don't know how to level a frequency isn't quite true. If you are only using stereo output, there is software like ARC System 2 (Advanced Room Correction) which will zero out your 2 channel output for sure.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008VICNTO/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B008VICNTO&linkCode=as2&tag=claorgwor-20&linkId=LJVSUETVOHCXGMAW

It's a stripped down version of the software used in the pro-audio world and geared more for home studios. I haven't really played with it in a multi-channeled system. So, I don't know if it will work for that. I'm not sure if it introduces any latency at all. However, someone reminded me of it yesterday and it's always been an interesting solution.

Note that using something like ARC 2 is going to zero out the room for standing waves but it won't change the relative volumes between notes in a rank if they aren't regulated evenly. This is why I suggested levelling after doing room correction.


You can use Arc2 in a multichannel setup as i do. You have to measure your front speakers (with the sub attached) and the rears seperatly. In Reaper you can use 2instances of Arc. Arc has a little bug that it only remembers one filter setting so if you start reaper you have to manually select the filtersetting for the rears, but it is only a few mousse clicks so it's not much of a problem.
See also the topic about Arc2 roomcorrection.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7938

Regards Jan
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