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OK, I'm impressed already

Discuss and share submissions to the Contrebombarde website.

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OK, I'm impressed already

Postby 1961TC4ME » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:22 pm

Hi All,

This subject has been touched on in the past and I'm sure my comments here may draw a few less than favorable responses but I can deal with it.

I've enjoyed CCH over the years and all the wonderful music. As a few others have noted, I too see a trend which is, it always seems (or maybe now more than ever) we have the same core group of folks contributing, and if a person just scrolls through a few pages in the 'browse' section you will see what I mean. What mostly gets me though is the number of uploads by this 'core' group. Seriously, is it absolutely necessary to upload 3, 5 or even more songs in a single day? A full page of uploads in one day? Really? I've started to wonder lately if this is more to impress, more of some kind of contest of one up-man-ship, or if perhaps there's quite a few out there that just have nothing better to do?

Although I've become accustomed to seeing it because I've been around awhile, if I were a newcomer to HW and CCH and I viewed the browse list page by page for the first time, I'd probably end up with the impression this is more of an exclusive place for just a certain few individuals rather than a place where there are many contributors and all are welcome, and I do realize all are welcome, it just looks a bit more like an exclusive group. I also wonder how many of the same songs have been uploaded many times by different contributors over the past few years? I'd have to imagine there's a considerable amount of overlap.

I guess what I'm getting at is it sure wouldn't bother me to see less uploads per day or even per week by the same contributors, that's if they are able to control themselves. Go out and change the oil on your car, mow the grass, go for a walk or go shopping instead and give it a break. :mrgreen: And, I'd like to see a few more contributions from newcomers or those that are not nearly as talented which is also the case with me. If a person can come here, look things over and be a bit less intimidated and doesn't see the same names all the time and in multiples, perhaps we'd see a bit more diversity here.

Thanks,

Marc
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby CarsonCooman » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:53 pm

1961TC4ME wrote:Although I've become accustomed to seeing it because I've been around awhile, if I were a newcomer to HW and CCH and I viewed the browse list page by page for the first time, I'd probably end up with the impression this is more of an exclusive place for just a certain few individuals rather than a place where there are many contributors and all are welcome


While I do very much disagree with the basic complaint underlying your post for various reasons, I see little point in pursuing an argument over a "what CCH should be" scenario.

However, from a purely factual perspective, taking the last 80 posts (6 days) on CCH as of this moment, there are 30 different performers/uploaders represented for those posts. That does not strike me as a crazy off-balance ratio or an over-representation of just a few people.

Also, I think it is worth remembering that the Hauptwerk community is a diverse one -- just like the community of people who play the organ in more general terms (or any musical instrument). There are some of us for whom this is our primary professional life and there are those for whom it is an extremely amateur hobby -- and literally everything in between. Thus people are going to contribute in a variety of different ways, and everybody needs to make their own decision as to what they feel comfortable posting.
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby 1961TC4ME » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:05 pm

Hello Carson,

You left out the part: and I do realize all are welcome. If you 're going to quote me please do it accurately and not selectively choose what I've said to look like something else, we have enough of that in this day and age of media already. Funny you would take up issue with what I've had to say, unless what I've said is hitting a nerve? I too see many new contributors, but the majority of them aren't going overboard uploading over and over, it's that certain number that are and in multiples quite often as well. This is not at all about "what it should be" or that I'm suggesting the site should be policed, but rather maybe more about using a little restraint and taking some consideration in how it should be used in a common sense way for all instead of a few contributors constantly bombarding the site with upload after upload. If it ends up there's a bit less to see and hear, fine, but as it is now we get someone new that contributes and a few days later it's already lost 10 pages back. I guess we're all different, but if I were a really good organist I'd be happy to maybe share an upload here and there at most. As my subject line says: OK, I'm already impressed. You guys are great organists, but give a few others some breathing room.

Best regards,

Marc
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby RichardW » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:06 pm

I'm just impressed that people can play that amount of stuff. I won't tell you how long I have been trying to play BWV565 so as to try and retain a modicum of credibility.

The more the merrier I say.
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby coupler » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:13 pm

RichardW wrote:The more the merrier I say.


I’m with Richard!

CCH is a unique site affording anyone the opportunity to publish their performances created using Hauptwerk. I am grateful for those who put their performances out there for us to listen to and enjoy.

Keep posting folks!
Cheers,

David Russell
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:01 am

I'm with you guys 100%, but would it be too much to ask that our more proficient / professional (you do it for a living) players here not flood CCH on a daily basis with uploads and give a few of the lesser contributors / lesser players here a chance to be more noticed when they do upload something and not let their uploads be buried 10 pages back within 24 hours? You guys (or gals) that play for a living or have been schooled in it and have played for a long time have more than made your point, you're good, I get it and you've certainly shown it here.

To me an important part of HW is getting people interested in the pipe organ, or getting them re-interested, something that hasn't exactly been a big hit amongst the masses as of late as we all know. I'm more interested in hearing from anyone regardless of their talent and want them to know I encourage they upload what they have to offer here and not be a bit ashamed to do so, and those that hear what they have to offer is met with much encouragement. But, if your average organ enthusiast comes here and sees / hears nothing but professionals and top shelf performances on a constant basis, it may deter them in more ways than one, maybe even to the point they give up and say "this isn't for me" which is not what we want! I've got plenty of places I can go if I want to hear perfection and great performances in organ music besides CCH.

Marc
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby deWaverley » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:33 am

I completely understand what you are saying Marc, and you express it very well. I too enjoy CCH much more when I can browse, listen to and comment on one or two submissions at a time from each contributor. I think a lot of us here agree with you to varying extents, but it's difficult to know what to do about it.

In the real world the egotistical and those in need of praise tend to push themselves to the front. Whether that is reflected in the pattern of CCH submissions I couldn't say.
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby OAM » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:08 am

Very interesting!
I tried to discuss the flooding of ConcertHall by some contributors some times ago and got back a severe bashing.
(O-tone:...if this disturbs you, then post even more...)
It's simply a matter of politeness and thoughtfulness, to limit oneself and give others a chance to be present on the first page for more than a few minutes.
Still just my two cents.
Prof. Helmut Maier
OrganArt Media Sound Engineering
D-72827 Wannweil/Germany
http://www.organartmedia.com
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby RichardW » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:56 am

OAM wrote:... to be present on the first page for more than a few minutes.


I see that as a separate issue that could easily be changed by altering the first page. For instance, the page could base its list not on the name of the piece but the name of the uploader. Only the name of the last piece needs to be included and details of the quantity of uploads could be added. If hyperlinks were used then you could link to the complete list if you chose to do so.

That way all uploaders would get similar prominence and there would be no need to stem the flow of excellent performances. I recognise that this is but one of the myriad of possible solutions.
Richard
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby gerrit » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:03 pm

I agree with Richard. This is a problem that should be solved by altering the website layout, not by altering the behavior of the uploaders.

I think the default browsing list as it is now should be replaced by tree different lists: uploaders (as Richard suggests) and in addition to that sample sets and composers. You then click on an uploader's, sample set's or composer's name to find a list of the last uploaded pieces for that entry.

I could be wrong, but I guess this approach would make everyone happy.
Gerrit Veldman

Free sheet music available at my website.
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:34 pm

OAM wrote:Very interesting!
I tried to discuss the flooding of ConcertHall by some contributors some times ago and got back a severe bashing.
(O-tone:...if this disturbs you, then post even more...)
It's simply a matter of politeness and thoughtfulness, to limit oneself and give others a chance to be present on the first page for more than a few minutes.
Still just my two cents.


I couldn't agree more! And thank you deWaverley for your kind words.

EDIT: I had a chance to rethink the situation on the drive home tonight and am totally scrapping what I had to say here earlier as it was just too complicated. Here's perhaps a simple solution: Being what seems to be the issue for some here including me is all the uploads by a certain number of users, after rethinking it, I don't want to regulate or hinder anyone from their freedom to upload all they want, and perhaps as pointed out by a few here it all has more to do with the way the CCH site is laid out right now than anything.

As it is now, when you click on the 'browse' tab you see everything submitted from everyone regardless if it's from those that upload a lot or a little, the list changes very quickly, only giving some that may only upload on occasion very little time before what they've contributed is buried. I am often surprised to visit one day and come back a day later to see all that has been added!

Maybe a simple solution to this would be to have two 'browse' categories, one for those that upload frequently and one for those that only upload occasionally. If you upload say more than a couple times a day or a week and you do this on a frequent basis, like maybe you do it for 2 weeks in a row, you get moved to the 'frequent' category, for everyone else that only uploads occasionally (I have about once every 9 months or longer), they stay in the 'occasional' category. This way if you want to upload 15 times a day and I or someone else doesn't care to wade through the 'frequent' list at the moment and would rather look through the 'occasional' list instead, then it's our choice. Maybe to take it a step further, for the 'frequent' list it could be broken down into a list showing each individual's user name, what their last submission was, and the number of uploads they have submitted to date, then a person can click on their name and see only their submissions. This would certainly keep the lists much cleaner instead of the jumbled up mess it is now. I know you can find different user's contributions now now by entering their user name in the search window, but if you don't know their user name, can't remember it or their last submission is 15 pages back and you don't feel like digging, this search feature is not much good. For the 'occasional' list I wouldn't think it would be necessary to make it too complicated and a more simple list showing what's been uploaded and when much like it is now by all the 'occasional' users would probably be just fine.

Some ideas to throw around.

Marc
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby CHRIS 037 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:38 am

What I would like to see is the ability to upload multiple files at one time.

Then if a contributor had five, ten, or more pieces to show off a certain organ, or acquaint us all with a little known composer, or show what a certain piece sounds like on various instruments, etc. that person could put the pieces all in one upload.

I know my contributions are sort of "Fringe" things since I'm not an accomplished player and I use midi files a lot, but I have to agree it is sort of sad sometimes to post a piece one evening, and then have to scroll down and down by the next morning to even find it on the list. I have to wonder how many visitors, who are not willing to scroll way down, might have enjoyed one of my little contributions.(?) I do plan to continue posting from time to time, as usual no matter what.

But, all in all, I really appreciate Concert Hall and learn so much about HW organs and music there.

Leo Chris. :)
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby dwood » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:06 am

Update:

We have made a slight change to how we handle multiple uploads at Contrebombarde.com based on some of these suggestions.

We made them specifically on the Dashboard because the new uploads section is relatively small and can get overwhelmed with multiple uploads from a single user. So, now, multiple uploads by a user are condensed into a single space which lists the number of uploads and provides a link to expand the list to see all of them.

We were not so worried about the browse page. If you're worried about missing out on an upload over a day or two, then just expand the number of pieces displayed from 10 to 20 or 50. I always have mine set at 50. It's almost unheard of to fill up 50 uploads in a day or two. More often than not, you'll find 3-5 days worth on a page of 50.

Two more new features are the "New user uploads" and "First uploads" tabs on the dashboard. These are there to specifically highlight users who upload for the first time. One highlights users who have recently joined Contrebombarde and the other highlights those who have been in the community for a while but are only starting to upload now. Both need your encouragement and feedback.

If you're worried about missing an upload from one of your favourite users, make sure you subscribe to their profile. Any new upload will then be emailed to you and show up in the "Subscribed uploads" tab on the dashboard.

We hope you enjoy these new features
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby CHRIS 037 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:26 pm

Hi,
Another suggestion that would make posting a bit better for me would be to allow the person posting a comment to edit their text. When I notice that I've made a mistake, I have to delete the comment and re-post it.
Not a big deal, but something I've thought about.
Thanks for the Concert Hall! :D
Leo Chris.
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Re: OK, I'm impressed already

Postby dwood » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:01 pm

thanks Leo.
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