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Organ Midi Files

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Organ Midi Files

Postby csw900 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:30 am

Hi Organ Lovers

I admit I am new to Contrebombarde and have not spent much time searching it.

I have been looking for midi files ACTUALLY PLAYED and PLAYABLE on a Hauptwerk organ,
so far I have not been able to find any.

All the files I have found were all originally piano rolls. These usually have one midi channel.
This one channel has simply been copied into two or three additional channels with no attempt to
add stops or anything else appropriate to playing the file on an organ.

This is simply not good enough for an organ website. As a minimum such files ought to be
labelled "Piano Roll" and ideally banned from the site.

Does Contrebombarde have any PROPER organ midi files and if so how do I find them?

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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby NickNelson » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:03 pm

Using 'advanced search' and selecting MID file included ='Yes' and performance type= 'live' I found 15 pages.

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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby csw900 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:26 pm

Hi Nick

Using the Advanced Search with your two hints has done the trick. I have
now found some worthwhile midi files and look forward to playing some of
them.

I still think piano rolls should be banned from the site, by no stretch of the imagination
could they ever play properly on an organ.

Thanks
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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby TheOrganDoc » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:14 pm

As I recall, there were also a number of Band Organ Midi Files reproduced on CB ! :roll:

I am sure you know, that a Midi File must be played
with the same sample set loaded, that the Midi file was made on,
in order for it to play correctly ! :D
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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby csw900 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:28 am

Hi OrganDoc

What you say about playing midi files with the same sample set as was recorded
is the easy non technical way -- however I suggest you try my multiOrgan program
which is configurable to play any Hauptwerk and other organs. Get it from (its free)
http://midimusic.github.io

You will find that it requires .sf2 sample sets and there are many such sample sets
available for pipe organs. I agree that the result will not sound the same as the
original set but it will be near enough for me as I am not ultra critical of the sound.

The only problem I MAY have; (not yet fully investigated) is getting hold of the stop
assignments for the particular organ I want to play.

Its more than likely the band organ files came from my website above. Its not
difficult to make a midi file from a band organ e-roll. I will see if there are any I
do not already have!

Thanks for the information
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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby IainStinson » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:16 am

MIDI files recorded using HWs built in recorder can be played back on either the same sample set on which they were recorded (this includes all the notes and all the registration changes) or on a different sample set when only the notes played will be played back. If you play back a midi file on a different sample set you can create a new midi recording from the notes played (from the midi file) and registration you add as the file is played for the sample set on which you are playing and recoding. See pg 181 of the user manual.

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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby csw900 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:31 am

Hi Iain

Thanks for the comment. What you say is true for non technical users of Hauptwerk
organs.

However I can use Cakewalk to look inside the midi files and see what NRPN's have
been used and can set these as valid stops in multiOrgan. The midi file channels
will correspond to the organ manuals. Swell channels can also be determined.

I can also use Viena to look inside any .sf2 sample set to see what presets are available
and what pipe (or instrument) will be played when that preset is selected. In fact
Viena can be used to edit or even make .sf2 sample sets from scratch.

Using the menus In multiOrgan I can map the NRPN's to their appropriate presets in the
sample set. This will work even for percussion stops.

Thus all I need to know in order to correctly play a midi file made by any Hauptwerk organ
is the stop assignments for the organ i.e. The stop name such as flute 8 and its corresponding
NRPN number such as 2004. I also need to know which manual the stop applies to.

There is nothing magic about this, it only needs a basic understanding of how midi and
organs work. Any one can do it.

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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby IainStinson » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:15 pm

Of course it s possible to edit Midi files using the tools you note (and several others) and for those ( of us) who can it is an option though overdubbing in HW is pretty easy to use for everyone too.

The tool you mention, multiOrgan, replays the midi files outside HW, using sound font sounds not the the HW sample sets sounds. It also plays the files using its own audio output via Windows. It appears to quite cleverly use sounds which approximate to the names of the stops from the HW sample sets it knows about. The HW midi player uses HW sample sets, the HW audio engine and the audio configuration of the HW instance used to play the file - the results won't be the same.

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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby csw900 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:38 pm

Hi Iain

Everything you say is correct. I have never said the results would be the same as playing
midi files on a REAL Hauptwerk organ. They are similar, multiOrgan is a simulator not the real
thing.

However it does sound quite realistic even with just two speakers.

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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby James » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:49 pm

Hi csw900
I am confused. It seems that you are steadily trying to get us hauptwerkians to use your multiOrgan software. Do you actually have a hauptwerk setup? If so, what are you using? Can your special midi files for the Estey rolls be played through Hauptwerk?
Thanks,
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Re: Organ Midi Files

Postby csw900 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:19 am

Hi James

I have just written a comprehensive reply to your query and lost the whole thing because
the forum logged me out while I was typing and then would not accept the post.

So here is a shortened version.

Yes I do have Hauptwerk running on both Windows and iMac. I am primarily interested
in producing players for Estey and Wurlitzer Band Organ e-rolls as these cannot be played
properly on any normal midi player.

Hence eplay followed by graphical programs ePlayWin32 and multiOrgan.

Yes eplay Win32 can properly play Estey e-rolls on any Hauptwerk system. St Annes and
Paramount 310 are supplied but if you understand your Hauptwerk system you can program
your NRPN stop codes into eplayWin32 and it will play the rolls on your system.

I produced multiOrgan mainly to play Wurlitzer Band organ e-rolls as they cannot be played
propely on any Hauptwerk system. But it turned out to work much better than I expected.

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