Search:
Submit Search


Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Discuss and share submissions to the Contrebombarde website.

Moderator: dwood

Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby rgilliam » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:23 pm

Hi everyone,

I understand it's best to upload MP3s at a 320 bit rate to Concert Hall. Have any of you determined what the optimal volume settings for recording in Hauptwerk would be for these uploads so that listeners do not experience music that is too loud or too soft? I have Hereford 67 XL, Caen 4-manual extended, and the Goerlitz Sonnenorgel. I would like to upload some recordings in the near future, but I'm hesitant to do so until I know the Trim DB and Volume level settings most appropriate for each of these three organs when recording. I have a surround setup with 2 rear speakers and 2 subwoofers if that matters at all. Any advice would be appreciated!

Also, would those settings need to change to burn a CD instead of uploading to Concert Hall?

Thanks,
Reid
rgilliam
Member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby TheOrganDoc » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:00 pm

Hello Reid,
I look forward to replies to your queries,
as Every HW Midi File that I have played on my HW Organ,
have been So Loud that I cannot cut the level enough to enjoy the performance ! :roll:

It would be wonderful if a standard level could be established,
"If Possible, by CB" ?

Thank you, and Best Wishes, Mel
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
User avatar
TheOrganDoc
Member
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: South East, Florida, USA

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby jkinkennon » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:50 pm

MIDI files don't normally have levels except to the extent that each keystroke has a velocity which will not affect playback levels, even with velocity sensitive Hauptwerk sample sets. The only level differences I experience when playing back MIDI files through HW is due to registration differences and whether I am using the correct sample set. I sometimes play MIDI files through a single sample set with nice crescendo settings for all the manuals and then get a choice of sounds that may or may not be close to what the organist intended.

The HW audio files have levels of course and one would hope that these files are recorded close to 0dB. Hopefully no one would consider compression for organ recordings -- that would make them sound louder. I can see a small registration being recorded at a lower volume. That's really more of an artistic/technical compromise and we can readily adjust the volume in most cases.

Does anyone else experience MIDI files as being really loud? If so any idea why? Something to do with odd levels in HW audio outputs where a mix down is louder than individual channels?
jkinkennon
Member
 
Posts: 855
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:43 am
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby Eric Sagmuller » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:43 pm

I have also wondered about what levels/voicing HW uses when making a recording that is uploaded to Concert Hall? Many of the recording on there sound quite dull to me. But some stand out as clear and articulate such as the Rotterdam organ as an example. I assume it's straight from the wave files before any voicing is done as we would do for our systems.

Eric
Eric Sagmuller
Member
 
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:18 pm
Location: Bellefonte, PA USA

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby mdyde » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:34 am

Hello Eric,

Hauptwerk's built-in audio recorder directly records the audio output stream from Hauptwerk, i.e. exactly whatever you send to your audio interface/speakers, including any voicing/level changes that you might have made within Hauptwerk.

In the case of multi-channel audio you can enable/disable audio recording for each audio output individually on the 'General settings | Audio outputs' screen. You could also create a logical aux mix-down output on that screen for recording the mixed audio, and specify your preferred level for that.
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10406
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby mdyde » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:45 am

jkinkennon wrote:Does anyone else experience MIDI files as being really loud? If so any idea why? Something to do with odd levels in HW audio outputs where a mix down is louder than individual channels?


Hauptwerk's MIDI recorder does record any movements of the 'Volume' slider (on the 'Audio, MIDI and Performance' large control panel), so if the person creating the MIDI file had been using that dynamically whilst playing (e.g. as a substitute for an expression pedal) then those movements would play back. If the person playing the MIDI file normally had his/her volume slider set at less than 100% then that could make the result louder.

Mel -- in case that's the issue you're experiencing, my advice would be normally to keep Hauptwerk's volume slider at 100%, and turn the output level down on your amplifier instead.
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10406
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby csw900 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:09 am

Hi

I have noticed that the volume (i.e. recording level) of the .wav file depends upon the organ (sample set).

It is a good idea (in my opinion) to "normalise" the recording level to around 96% and I use
Adobe Audition to do this. After normalising I convert the file to .mp3 for uploading.

As far as midi files go, there are various midi commands which can affect the volume but these
are seldom used. I do not know if Hauptwerk uses them but examining a few of Hauptwerk's
midi files in detail with a midi editor (e.g. Cakewalk) should reveal this.

I have noticed that some organ midi files have the swell permanently set to 100% while others
have it permanently set to 0% -- this is the most likely cause of inappropriate volume levels.

I use the volume control on my amplifier to turn the volume up or down to set a level
appropriate to my mood at the time.

csw900
User avatar
csw900
Member
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:40 am
Location: UK

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby Eric Sagmuller » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:41 pm

mdyde wrote:Hello Eric,

Hauptwerk's built-in audio recorder directly records the audio output stream from Hauptwerk, i.e. exactly whatever you send to your audio interface/speakers, including any voicing/level changes that you might have made within Hauptwerk.


Interesting. So what may sound good in someones room that the set is voiced too, may sound quite a bit different from a recording that is played on someone else's speakers. That probably explains my complaint that some recordings sound quite good while others not. I notice this variance much less on recordings made of pipe organs directly.

Eric
Eric Sagmuller
Member
 
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:18 pm
Location: Bellefonte, PA USA

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby rgilliam » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:16 pm

Thanks to all of you for the discussion thus far. One of the key things I've read is to try to set the Trim dB setting to something close to 0 dB. That makes sense to me. When I play using my speaker setup, I have the trim set between -8 and -18dB, depending on the sample set. It sounds great at that level, and I have the volume set to about 20 out of 100.

I think I'll try a setting of 0 dB and perhaps 50/100 volume, turn off my speakers and just use my headphones. Based on my experience with the headphones, I'll record with them off of my ears so the sound will not blast my eardrums. I usually keep the trim dB setting where it is with the headphones and have the volume set to 50 and it sounds great.

My hunch is that I'll still have to adjust the volume setting for each sample set when recording, but we'll see.

Keep the thoughts coming!
Reid
rgilliam
Member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby mdyde » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:22 am

Hello Reid,

Rather than try to adjust your Hauptwerk settings, I think it's probably simplest and best just to edit each resulting WAV file in an audio editor (e.g. the free Audacity: http://www.audacityteam.org/ ) to adjust its level optimally for the specific recording. Make sure you have Hauptwerk set to record 32-bit WAV files for best quality (on the 'General settings | Audio outputs' screen).

Another possibility is to create an aux mix-down in Hauptwerk for recording. Disable recording from the other output(s). You can then adjust the level of that mix-down output independently from your main speaker output(s).
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10406
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby rgilliam » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:38 am

Thanks, Martin. I've wondered why so many are having to use Audacity; perhaps this is why! I'll give it a shot.

By the way, Hauptwerk is really terrific. My practice time has tripled because of it!

Thanks again,
Reid
rgilliam
Member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby mdyde » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:04 pm

Thanks, Reid.

You're very welcome. Glad to hear it's giving you so much enjoyment/work!
Best regards,
Martin.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]

Image
User avatar
mdyde
Moderator
 
Posts: 10406
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: Volume levels for uploading to Concert Hall

Postby Stefanussen » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:27 pm

I just normalize the resulting recording to -1 dB
Rob Stefanussen
User avatar
Stefanussen
Member
 
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:55 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT


Return to Contrebombarde Concert Hall

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests