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Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby kiwiplant » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:57 pm

Anyone up for a series of organ + chimes recordings ? :P :shock:
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby Fazioli » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:32 pm

TheOrganDoc wrote:Fazoli,

I'm glad you enjoy annoying others,
just proves what you're mental age is :lol: !



hmm... :roll: :? :|
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby organtechnology » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:52 pm

<rant mode>

Gentlemen,

MIDI is just a method of communication between two or more electronic instruments. The values of data inserted into the MIDI stream by the composer/performer and what nuances are included determine the musical value of the resulting sound. There were and are, many composers and performers who cannot for reasons of physical limitations, natural or induced, perform such that the listener hears what they hear in their minds. And they, by virtue of the manipulation of a MIDI data stream can produce masterful performances and compositions. To claim that a recording made through the use of these techniques is inferior because it uses MIDI is gross hubris on the part of the critic. In point of fact many, if not most, are multi tracked recordings of a person playing each track and combining them in the MIDI file. This is not a piano roll (exceptions noted for Band Organs) where each note is entered into the computer one at a time but a laborious performance of the music, just not in real time.

A couple of years ago I would not have enjoyed theatre organ music as I do now. I always enjoyed Bach, but now I appreciate it much more than ever. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a band organ. Now I do and they are amusing in small doses. All of this is thanks to Hauptwerk and Contrbombarde Concert Hall and the MIDI performances contained there in.

Just remember, if you don't like it, you may turn it off whenever you want!

Pax,

Thomas

</rant mode>
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby kwsmith15 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:59 am

Thomas,

To claim that a recording made through the use of these techniques is inferior because it uses MIDI is gross hubris on the part of the critic.

Personally I do not claim that a recording made via MIDI is inferior. But also, personally, I have no interest in listening to such performances because of the lack of shared emotional and tactile experience. For me, a significant part of the fun of listening to organ music is the muscle memory that is triggered by listening to pieces I've played. When I know that the piece has been electronically scripted via a MIDI file, I feel cheated and the entire experience isn't much fun.

MIDI, available hardware, available sample sets and Hauptwerk are not yet fully capable of replicating the experience of playing a tracker organ, yet I strongly prefer both the experience of playing a tracker organ to that of an electro-pneumatic or MIDI organ, and the experience of listening carefully to a tracker organ. For practice and for performance where a tracker organ isn't feasible (regrettably, a great deal of the time), I'm 2nd to no one in my admiration and enjoyment of Hauptwerk. I can (and do) admire what computers generally can accomplish. But I'm not willing to identify electronic music as every bit as good as a live performance on a non-electronic instrument.

Hence, my lack of interest in MIDI.

I haven't suggested such performances be outlawed on ContreBombarde. I've only suggested they be identified (which they already are) and searchable (which they are not yet).

Ken
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby gingercat » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:03 am

kwsmith15 wrote:But also, personally, I have no interest in listening to such performances because of the lack of shared emotional and tactile experience.

With a properly authored MIDI file, I'm sure you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a "live" Hauptwerk performance vs a "crafted" performance.
kwsmith15 wrote:I can (and do) admire what computers generally can accomplish. But I'm not willing to identify electronic music as every bit as good as a live performance on a non-electronic instrument. Hence, my lack of interest in MIDI.

I think you're missing the point that all recordings on the Concert Hall are electronic MIDI music, just that some are performed live, others not, but they're all essentially electronic MIDI performances! If it pains you so much to listen to electronic MIDI recordings, than there's a whole wealth of recordings of "real" organs out there to listen to / buy, but the whole point of the Concert Halls is so that people can showcase what they've achieved with Hauptwerk, however they chose to perform it.
Regards,
Chris Blaylock
i5 4670k, 32GB RAM, Win7, 2xELO 1280x1024 Touchscreens, Focusrite Saffire, MIDISport 4x4
4 Manual Console, 32 R&C Pedalboard, 3xExpression, Solenoid coupler tabs
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby kwsmith15 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:54 am

gingercat,

I understand perfectly that MIDI is used to drive HW, and in fact, many organs. And the ability of programmers to achieve through programming MIDI that which keyboard players achieve through pressing keys is clear.

But having done both of these activities (programming computers, playing music) for many years, I do not regard them as emotionally equivalent, and my musical interests are engaged far more when I know the sounds have been achieved through human interaction in real time with the sound being produced. Editing MIDI files can produce the same sound as music performed with muscles in real-time; that doesn't mean it engages me the same way.

While I'm confident that your conclusion is correct re: effects achieved via MIDI, I haven't found that yet personally. Of course, I'm not looking for it either.

Ken
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby telemanr » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:30 am

I think perhaps the key here is "when I know the sounds have been achieved..."
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby kwsmith15 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:54 pm

I agree. This is highly subjective. And my request was only to be able to have my searches exclude MIDI performances. I've branched off into the basis of my highly subjective opinion.

Ken
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby TheOrganDoc » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:17 pm

Hi all,
And, as I stand on the other side of the river, :?
being much more mechanic than musician,
I anxiously await Hauptwerk 4.0, with Midi Record/Play Capability,
so that I might possibly be able to hear my HW organ played as it should be,
by those far more skilled at making music than I am.

I do hope that HW's Midi record system does not detract any of the musicality of the piece,
nor lock it's meter and timing as most mechanical musical instruments do. :wink:

Still practicing but not learning quickly, :roll:

Mel, TheOrganDoc
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby B. Milan » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:32 pm

TheOrganDoc wrote:
I do hope that HW's Midi record system does not detract any of the musicality of the piece,
nor lock it's meter and timing as most mechanical musical instruments do. :wink:


Hello Mel,

The Hauptwerk 4 MIDI recorder/player will play back a MIDI file exactly as it was recorded.
Regards,
Brett Milan
http://www.hauptwerk.com
http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby micdev » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:38 pm

B. Milan wrote:The Hauptwerk 4 MIDI recorder/player will play back a MIDI file exactly as it was recorded.


:| Too bad, I was hoping that new technology (HW 4) would transform my "amateur playing" into a master piece, thanks to some artificial intelligence, adding good phrasing, rubato and all those little variations that make a difference between an amateur and a pro. Oh well... maybe in Hw 5!

François
Virtually sharing my enthusiasm and experience with you
Worldwide technical assistance, consultation and ready to play system.

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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby amateurorganist » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:55 pm

I think there is a difference between an obviously programmed in MIDI file (some do appear on contrebombarde.com) and a performance recorded live via a midi sequencer. I think it useful to hear the same MIDI performance on different sample sets.
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby JohnNicholson » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:01 pm

I'm sure people posting music on the Contrebombarde site do so because they love their music. Not for any malicious reason. I have so enjoyed being exposed to a wide range of organ music I had never before appreciated enough. I do think it is a pity that the cinema organ sample sets seem to be so expensive. The technique is so different to the way I play, but I would like to 'have a go' somehow. First I must build a pedal board and a second keyboard to my rudimentary set up.
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby toplayer2 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:35 pm

JohnNicholson wrote:I'm sure people posting music on the Contrebombarde site do so because they love their music. Not for any malicious reason. I have so enjoyed being exposed to a wide range of organ music I had never before appreciated enough. I do think it is a pity that the cinema organ sample sets seem to be so expensive. The technique is so different to the way I play, but I would like to 'have a go' somehow. First I must build a pedal board and a second keyboard to my rudimentary set up.

John,

Part of our mission is to encourage interest in the cinema organ, particularly amongst classically trained organists. Toward that end we offer a world class three manual ten rank theatre organ completely free of charge, the Paramount 310. It can be used with any version of Hauptwerk, including the Free Edition, and requires no license key update. This will give someone like you an opportunity to become acquainted with the genre without making a large investment. We also offer a twenty rank model that is very reasonably priced at $179 US (149.00 EU), and in January we will introduce our thirty-two rank model 330. Then later next year we will offer the utlimate virtual cinema organ, the four manual, forty-six rank model 440. Each of the larger models builds on the model below it. The quality of the samples in the free model 310 is fully the equal of our largest organs.

One may download the Paramount 310 here:

http://www.hauptwerk.com/downloads/instrument-downloads/

Thank you for your post.

Joe Hardy, Alan Baker & Iain McGlinchey
http://www.ParamountOrganWorks.com
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Re: Concert Hall hijacked by TPO fans?

Postby JohnNicholson » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:58 pm

Hi Joe!
Thanks for sending this information. I did not realise that there was a free cinema organ sample. It is just what I need to learn more about this totally different approach to organ technique. I will try and download the 310 as you suggest. I am situated four miles from the telephone exchange with lots of trees rubbing the wires so big downloads are not easy!
John Nicholson.


Part of our mission is to encourage interest in the cinema organ, particularly amongst classically trained organists. Toward that end we offer a world class three manual ten rank theatre organ completely free of charge, the Paramount 310. Thank you for your post.

Joe Hardy, Alan Baker & Iain McGlinchey
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