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To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

Discuss and share submissions to the Contrebombarde website.
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vidarf

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostSun Nov 20, 2011 1:13 pm

Well, if you checked out the actual law that covers the issues in this thread, you would know that I a m right. I can record a performance with my own interpretation of the work, and that recording becomes my property. However, the law states that in good manner I should credit the author of the original work. But when I record a performance on my HW computer, that recording becomes my property. If you as a composer has published the score (i.e. sold it to anyone interested), you have made your work public. You own the rights to that piece - it is yours. But you cannot stop anyone from playing your score in public, make a recording of it and sell that recording, or in any other way prevent publication of recordings of your work. If I purchase the score, records it and publish it - the recording belongs to me. It is my interpretation, therefore it is my work. That does of course not mean that I own the score - just my interpretation of it.

Believe me, I know this stuff. I can in fact copy - with the consent of the law - all the CD's my father owns, as long as I don't make the copy public. The key words are "for private use" and (paraphrasing) "the listener decides when and where the recording is played back".

And so it should be. My interpretation of any work - tempo, mood, registration... - should be considered my work, and my work belongs to me. If I record an improvisation over "desperado" by the Eagles on the CC Metz, that improvisation is mine. But I have no rights to the original song - just the right to perform it.
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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostMon Nov 21, 2011 3:59 pm

Dear Vidarf,

I am a great admirer of the marvellous console that you have made - however, consider if you gave someone plans, measurements and videos to show them exactly how to make a copy - you would want some kind of reward, I imagine.
As a composer, I feel that any money that you might generate from a piece of mine should be shared in some proportion between you and me. Just to buy the score and then to consider that you have the right to exploit it and potentially make a lot of money from it (I wish!) without any further payment to me is, frankly, unfair. If I write music to sell, and you think it is good enough to buy - you should pay me and not photocopy music. If you then think it's good enough to record, then you should be happy to share any success with the creator who contributed to that success.

There were riots in London in the summer - would you argue that it was a fair distribution of wealth?

Best wishes

Ian
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vidarf

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostMon Nov 21, 2011 7:59 pm

Not the same thing, my friend. But I don't want to sidetrack this thread any more. But I do not agree with you - I purchase your score, yo've made money. If I sell a lot of CD's, it is my work, my interpretation. It is not a photocopy of your work (THAT would be illegal and immoral). If you can compose it, I suppose you can play it. If my interpretation is more popular than yours, I make the money. If this is not cool with you, you need to specify that you want money from any recording of your material - THAT'S fair. If you sell a score without that limitation, you have written off any rights to claim benefits from other peoples work.

If I sold plans for a console, I would expect a company that mass-produce the console to buy plans from me for a rather hefty sum, or pay me a fee per console built. But that is a totally different thing.

But bear in mind: I am NOT a working performer. I am an amateur, and therefore MY "work" as a musician should not be prosecuted if I should release a recording of a piece - as long as it is free or any payment goes to a good cause. But the problem with too rigid copyright laws is that the "big dogs" goes after the puppies. Normal John or Jane Doe who does not have the knowledge of the law or the money to fight a lawsuit. In the pursuit of "rights" and "copyrights", there (usually) is no difference between a private citizen or a large company.

As long as I don't charge for my work, do not bother me. If I make a CD and sell a lot of copies, lucky me. If you sold me a score targeted for such applications (for a larger fee of course), you've got your part of the pie. Why should you benefit in percentage for my excellence on the keyboards? May I charge you for the thousands of practicing hours?

I see your point, and I respect your view on the matter. But I am not agreeing with you. I hope you get what you deserve from your work, but I refuse to let you prosper on my benefit. Isn't that a core issue in the situation you mentioned (I have no clue what happened or why, but I assume it's not something new or exclusive to Londoners).

Agree to disagree? :)


And now, let's put the copyright issues to rest and upload more to CCH. Both professional, educated, amateurs and tone-death! I enjoy listening to music of any kind - and if I hear a piece I like, I either download the score from ISLMP - or I order the score so that the composer earns some money. Thanks to Stefanussen, I ordered 3 scores last year. Thus, the free sharing resulted in two composers getting a little more into their bank account. How's that for distribution of wealth?

Sharing is caring, people! :) But always make sure the creator is mentioned, and pay for your scores unless they are in the public domain.

If anyone wants to discuss this matter in more depth with me, either send me a PM or start a new thread (and send me a PM pointing to it).

I'm working on a new piece which I intend to upload to CCH. This time, I'm going to record the MIDI file and try the piece on the different organs I have. Could be cool!
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pwhodges

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostTue Nov 22, 2011 3:54 am

When I buy a recording, it is usually the music I am after, and the performance is secondary (it merely prompts a reperformance within my head, if you see what I mean). So it seems to me reasonable that the composer should have at least equal rights in this.

Paul
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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostTue Nov 22, 2011 8:34 am

I'm with Vidarf on this one; my opinion is that when purchasing a music score, it is pretty much equivalent to purchasing a "recipe"... a set of instructions to "build" a musical performance. What I do end up doing with that is my business, just like it's my business what I do with a cake recipe, or a book of instructions on how to build a set of kitchen cabinets etc etc. It is not fair / acceptable when the instructions become "viral" in nature, and attempt to permanently worm their way into everything I do with them. I fully agree that artists / composers need to be compensated for their work, but that's what the initial purchase is all about.

I don't agree that the "performance is secondary"; it's all about the performance, and this becomes clear when you think in extremes: would you buy Beethoven's 5th symphony when played by younger children still starting to learn music... or would you purchase the cd sitting on the shelf beside it, which was performed by a world class orchestra and conductor?

Edit: maybe "it's all about the performance" is too much the other direction; what about equal importance on both the the music itself and the performance?
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vidarf

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostSat Nov 26, 2011 10:56 am

I whipped out a score I haven't used for a while - so I'm a bit rusty on this one. But it is a beautiful piece by J.L.Krebs - the Praeludium in B major.

Link to Contrebombarde

I hope you enjoy it! :)
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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostWed Feb 08, 2012 6:09 pm

this is going a bit offtopic so I'll keep this brief:

vidarf wrote:If I record an improvisation over "desperado" by the Eagles on the CC Metz, that improvisation is mine. But I have no rights to the original song - just the right to perform it.


you don't have the right to perform it in public unless you entered into an agreement with the copyright holder of the song, unless you have a signed agreement by Cass Country Music (in your Eagles example) you wouldn't be legally allowed to post a video of you playing a cover of an Eagles song on youtube. A lot of folks with Eagles covers and teaching videos (how to play ...) on youtube found out about that the hard way, having their videos taken down and/or their accounts locked.

Obviously you can play Eagles' covers in your own house to your heart's content, but if you wanted to perform them in public (and public could mean youtube, contrebombarde, at your local pub, in a square, ...) to be completely legal you would need a license to do so: the type of license you'd need depends on the country you live in of course.

Due to the legal climate nowadays it's very easy for a website to be taken down if there are copyright claims against it, so unless you are SURE that your performance is non-infringing I would refrain from posting it online and IMHO to be "sure" nowadays you'd only post works published pre-1909 due to how the US copyright law works...
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vidarf

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostFri Feb 10, 2012 4:16 pm

That's the sad part. The U.S. law. How those laws should affect me here in Norway, I cannot understand. But it seems like the copyright war is headed that way. Sad.
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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostFri Feb 10, 2012 7:12 pm

A British student who has never been abroad is being deported by the UK to the US (unless his appeal is successful) for possibly (it's arguable, actually) breaking a US law while in Britain. His error was doing it on a website which happened to be hosted in the US; the possible crime was putting on the website, not copyright material, but a link to copyright material that was available elsewhere.

Paul
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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostFri Feb 24, 2012 1:52 pm

Tell him not to worry. When he gets here Obamma will help him out! :mrgreen:
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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostSat Mar 24, 2012 8:46 pm

Sorry so off topic, but come on guys, there's nobody that wants to reply to my latest quip here about the poor lad from the UK? I figured by now somebody would come up with a wisecrack response. This has been a good thread and it's been a month now since anyone has contributed, surely somebody can come up with something in reply? :P

vidarf, where are you when we need you?

Marc
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B. Milan

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostSat Mar 24, 2012 9:10 pm

Hello Marc,

While we generally don't restrict most discussions and topics here on the forum, we do request that topics pertaining to politics are best left elsewhere, so let's please not get into that type of discussion here, even as light-hearted as it may be.

Thank you.
Brett Milan
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MILAN DIGITAL AUDIO
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1961TC4ME

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostSun Mar 25, 2012 3:56 pm

Hello Brett,

Alright, no problem. :)

Marc
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vidarf

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Re: To encourage new Hauptwerk users 2 upload their performances

PostSat May 26, 2012 7:07 am

1961TC4ME wrote:vidarf, where are you when we need you?

Marc


On the organ bench, practicing this piece:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeppenGFYPk

Will upload to CCH when I have it "in my fingers". Do not hold your breath! :) On the last part, you have to play two keyboards with one hand (the thumb plays a simple part while the rest of the fingers plays chords).

And I do not want to comment any more on politics. I've gone off topic enough.

It is remarkable how much progress I've made since I built my setup. I still can't play the more advanced stuff, but I'm coming along nicely. And I've adopted my brother's love for french romantic music. I played a lot of Bach before, but now I find the baroque music a bit boring and tedious. That being said, there are true gems there - even for my personal taste.

So - no more politics here. Just organ talk. :)
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