My Schwindler console

Hi,

I've just come back from a few days of vacation, and I could at last spend a few hours playing on my new Schwindler console (that I received just before I left...)

It is as nice to play as it is to see, although the pictures probably don't pay justice to it.

Here is how I received the console :


A few hours later, here is the console assembled :


and a few close-ups :






As for the computer and speakers setup, I use a 2008 mac pro, with 32Gb of ram, a m-audio fasttrack pro with 4 monitoring speakers (a 2+1 samson resolv, and a pair or prodipe pro5) at the four corners of the small room where the console sits.

phjo

Looks good, nice clean lines. Is it all solid wood?

I think many are wondering about the touch of these keyboards, please report back when you've had a good play on them!

Very simple yet elegant design, congrats for your purchase Pierre-Henri!

Like DancingKitty, I would love to know more about how you feel with the keyboards' touch.

About the wood, no this is not solid wood but high quality plywood covered with different kinds of wood along the sides (birch wood and maple I suppose)

The keyboards are covered with wenge and maple

As for the touch of the keyboards itself, it feels quite good, and I tend to like it more and more as I play it. I've actually spent more time playing with this new console the past two days than I've spent time running hauptwerk with my old gem chorus for the last 12 to 18 months... (and the touch on the Gem chorus was not that bad either actually, except for some rather lazy contacts)

The keyboards, pedalboard included, allow for a very precise playing, or maybe I should say they demand a very precise playing as they are a bit unforgiving, which makes the console a perfect device for practicing.

From my limited experience so far, I'd say the quality/price ratio is excellent.

phjo

phjo............looks real nice.........
simple yet expandable....
..........
joeroberts

As for the touch of the keyboards itself, it feels quite good, and I tend to like it more and more as I play it. I've actually spent more time playing with this new console the past two days than I've spent time running hauptwerk with my old gem chorus for the last 12 to 18 months... (and the touch on the Gem chorus was not that bad either actually, except for some rather lazy contacts)

The keyboards, pedalboard included, allow for a very precise playing, or maybe I should say they demand a very precise playing as they are a bit unforgiving, which makes the console a perfect device for practicing

Thanks for your answer Pierre-Henri!

I'm not sure to which extent you have the possibility to access a tracker organ. If you do, how would you compare the Schwindler touch to the real tracker one?

On their website, they mention their product are the most realistic ones vs. real tracker organs. Would you confirm the same?

I know the answer is not that easy, especially as all tracker organs are not the same in that regard - far from it.

My question is actually related to my own experience. I tried to take organ lessons, where the two instruments I could access where tracker organs. One was the private chamber organ on which my teacher was rehearsing and giving lessons, the other one was the Merklin on which he's playing at the local Cathedral. With my previous M-Audio keyboards with so-called half weighted touch, the feeling was so different I could hardly play anything while playing on the tracker ones. I didn't have the chance to test how different the tracker is from the Fatar I switched to yet. Hopefully in your case the difference is not that noticeable!

I'm not sure to which extent you have the possibility to access a tracker organ. If you do, how would you compare the Schwindler touch to the real tracker one?

Yes, I've played a lot of tracker organs, and as you say, nothing is more different from a tracker organ than another tracker organ...

I couldn't objectively compare realism of Schwindler keyboards to Fatar or UHT ones, as I haven't played any of those, but I would say that the keyboards I own, such as they are regulated right now, do feel like a moderately large organ with good suspended action.

It feels like it but it is not close enough to get misstaken with the real thing. I know of no real tracker organ with such homogeneous feel in the keyboards : on a real organ, different keyboards feel different, even without any coupler engaged, and the valve opening is never felt exactly at the beginning of the movement of the key, whereas with the Schwindler keyboards, the utmost resistance is felt immediately.

That said, with a good sampleset playing, it is easy to feel soon immersed in the sound and forget you're playing a virtual organ...

And I maintain that such as it is, it is an excellent console to practice on so I am confident that when I am satisfied with playing such or such piece on this console, I will be comfortable with about any tracker. (Some exceptions of course, such as playing the Riepp organ in Dole where the action is so heavy no virtual substitute can prepare to...)

As for your problem, Pat(rice ? rick ?), I would suppose taking the habit of playing different kinds of keyboards, practicing the manual parts of a piece on a piano for example (even an electronic one of course) could help a lot.

phjo

It feels like it but it is not close enough to get misstaken with the real thing. I know of no real tracker organ with such homogeneous feel in the keyboards : on a real organ, different keyboards feel different, even without any coupler engaged, and the valve opening is never felt exactly at the beginning of the movement of the key, whereas with the Schwindler keyboards, the utmost resistance is felt immediately.

This is the issue, clearly... Each instrument is different indeed, and even on each one, the keyboards are different. The Merklin I was referring to has a barker machine on the Great - the middle of the 3 keyboards - and as a result has a completely different behaviour from the choir and the swell. As you mentioned, the resistance felt when the valves are opening is not felt from the very beginning, but only when you depress the key by 1/3 to 1/2. By the way, I've read in some cases it was set this way on purpose - it can thus reduce mistakes when playing, since depressing the wrong key would not have any consequence if not done completely.

And I maintain that such as it is, it is an excellent console to practice on so I am confident that when I am satisfied with playing such or such piece on this console, I will be comfortable with about any tracker. (Some exceptions of course, such as playing the Riepp organ in Dole where the action is so heavy no virtual substitute can prepare to...)

Lucky you, you were able to play on that gem...

As for your problem, Pat(rice ? rick ?), I would suppose taking the habit of playing different kinds of keyboards, practicing the manual parts of a piece on a piano for example (even an electronic one of course) could help a lot.

Patrick!

I'm no longer resident in France, and relocated in a place where pipe organs simply do not exist. When I come back home for vacation, I try to take organ lessons. Yet my stay is so short I have not enough time to get accustomed to the real keyboards. Hence I am completely unable to play on a real instrument.

As you mentioned, the resistance felt when the valves are opening is not felt from the very beginning, but only when you depress the key by 1/3 to 1/2. By the way, I've read in some cases it was set this way on purpose - it can thus reduce mistakes when playing, since depressing the wrong key would not have any consequence if not done completely.

This is a bit extreme for the early keyboards player that I am... I would expect the valve opening resistance to occur within 1 mm or so, but still, it differs a bit from the resistance one can feel playing Schwindler keyboards.

Patrick!

I'm no longer resident in France, and relocated in a place where pipe organs simply do not exist. When I come back home for vacation, I try to take organ lessons. Yet my stay is so short I have not enough time to get accustomed to the real keyboards. Hence I am completely unable to play on a real instrument.

Yes, Patrick, I've read some of your contributions here, including your nice setup with, now, wooden covered Fatar keyboards.

No doubt these new keyboards will be much better than the ones they replace. Still, I think that if you intend to be able to adapt to different organs, and particularly the tracker touch organs you might play only a few times each year, a piano such as a clavinova might be a very useful complement to your setup, easy to find and cheap, so that you can practice manual parts with a much heavier touch, closer to the Merklin tracker keyboards you might want to play... In a different direction, an harpsichord or a clavichord could be nice too (I much prefer them to pianos...), but it is more expensive, and needs maintenance and tuning...

My two cents,

phjo

A little update : I decided to adjust the initial weight of the keyboards.

I suppose it was initially configured so that one needed to apply a weight of approximately 150 grams to depress a key. I reduced it to about 120 grams for every key. Action is now very light, which as an harpsichordist, I do prefer.

It took me one hour and a half to do just that (3 times 61 screws to adjust, remove top keyboards to access bottom ones…)

phjo

No doubt these new keyboards will be much better than the ones they replace. Still, I think that if you intend to be able to adapt to different organs, and particularly the tracker touch organs you might play only a few times each year, a piano such as a clavinova might be a very useful complement to your setup, easy to find and cheap, so that you can practice manual parts with a much heavier touch, closer to the Merklin tracker keyboards you might want to play... In a different direction, an harpsichord or a clavichord could be nice too (I much prefer them to pianos...), but it is more expensive, and needs maintenance and tuning...

I might be able to check that in a few days - going to La Rochelle next week, yet I am no sure I can meet the organist I know over there while being in France.

I suppose it was initially configured so that one needed to apply a weight of approximately 150 grams to depress a key. I reduced it to about 120 grams for every key. Action is now very light, which as an harpsichordist, I do prefer.

It took me one hour and a half to do just that (3 times 61 screws to adjust, remove top keyboards to access bottom ones…)

This is a distinctive advantage for your keyboards. I am not aware of any other manufacturer allowing you to do so - excepted UHT which can set it for you when manufacturing the keyboards - but not sure you can do it once shipped and installed.

Hello PH ...

... you mentioned "price to quality ratio". That makes me wonder whether you are willing to say what the price of the three manual keyboard stack with the 16 thumb pistons might have been? Approximate will do!

I might be in the market for wood-finished keyboards at some point in the future, if I can persuade the Financial Controller (wife)!

Here's hoping

Ken

Hi Ken,

Sorry for my late answer, but I didn't see your post here until the blackout here stopped !

Actually, the prices are online on the website of Fabio Mancini, although they are a bit tough to find…

From there : http://www.fabiomancini.altervista.org/hauptwerk/hauptwerk.htm click on << Preventivo online console Schwindler >>.

Prices are now 2850 euros (including VAT) for a stack of three wooden covered keyboards. (Ordering last may, I think I paid a bit less, or maybe exactly that, but that included some option for the front decoration of the keys.)

And happy new year for all of course,

phjo

Thanks for the information, PH.

I had looked at the Schwindler website previously but hadn't found the prices. I think that they are somewhat less pricey than many wood-covered 3-manual keyboards and they are very attractive.

Do they include the thumb pistons on the lower manual, or did you build or buy that separately?

Thanks agai,

Ken

Thanks for the information, PH.

I had looked at the Schwindler website previously but hadn't found the prices.?

Thanks agai,

Ken

Hello Ken, prices are listed here.

http://form.jotformeu.com/form/33645255103347