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First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:02 pm

Vangelis wrote:control a Boeing dashboard


Boeing "dashboards" are kinda cool. 8) :roll:

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Ed
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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:10 pm

"Restore on Power Loss"

I was, at least in years past, under the impression that "pulling the plug" was kinda harsh on the computer. This vs a sequential shutdown as is programmed into the system which appears to be easier on the computer. Any "expert" opinions?

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby NickNelson » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:03 am

engrssc wrote:"Restore on Power Loss"

I was, at least in years past, under the impression that "pulling the plug" was kinda harsh on the computer.


Yes, I'm sure that this is still regarded as a bad thing to do. In practice, as Richard points out, you have to wait until the computer has shut itself down normally before removing the mains. This is not ideal in a stand alone Church installation.

I wonder whether this too could be automated by monitoring one of the main power rails (possibly via a USB port) and shutting off the mains shortly after this rail went low.

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:00 am

Of course one would have to "restore" the mains on power up.

Then, too, some folks "tolerate" the clunk and other noise created when the power amp is live during computer start up and shut down not realizing the possibility of transient damage to speakers esp to mid range and high speakers. Just because the speakers don't die, doesn't mean that damage (over time) isn't happening. The argument that I've heard is that at least modern speakers should be able to deal with it. Even if this is the case, my ears and other listeners ears, esp in a church, don't like it.

The answer is a sequencer that will control (turn on, turn off) of the various components, the power amp(s) being last on, first off. I've never heard a Rodgers or Allen or even "toasters" do this loud clunk bit..

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby mdyde » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:14 am

Hello Ed,

engrssc wrote:I was, at least in years past, under the impression that "pulling the plug" was kinda harsh on the computer. This vs a sequential shutdown as is programmed into the system which appears to be easier on the computer. Any "expert" opinions?


I'd strongly advise against 'pulling the plug' on the computer. It's highly likely to lose your settings/combinations/etc. and fairly likely to result in corrupted installations/disks too (especially if you do it with any regularity).
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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:33 am

mdyde wrote:I'd strongly advise against 'pulling the plug' on the computer. It's highly likely to lose your settings/combinations/etc. and fairly likely to result in corrupted installations/disks too (especially if you do it with any regularity).


Reading some of the posts here on the Forum, I've wondered at times if some over of the "problems" mentioned are as a result of some "poor practices". Computer handling (anyone can do it theory) can be a problem waiting to happen. Then there's the read the manual issue. :o

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby NickNelson » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:17 am

engrssc wrote:The answer is a sequencer that will control (turn on, turn off) of the various components, the power amp(s) being last on, first off. I've never heard a Rodgers or Allen or even "toasters" do this loud clunk bit.


I explained how I control the amplifiers here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13422&p=99262#p99262

There's still a 'plop' as the B2031A's fire up though, but at least they won't damage themselves. I expect there must be some designs of PA/monitor speaker systems which are designed to power up silently which would be better still.

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:22 am

I have some info somewhere which describes a system where partial power is applied to the output stage of a PA (power amp) and a few seconds later, full power. Claimed to be "silent" startup. No experience with it tho.

Then, too, there is a power surge on the mains if and when a large PA or many smaller PA's fire up at the same time.

A former boss's daughter had the answer, if you don't like a certain sound, make a louder one. Case in point, she heard a thumpy sound in her car. So she turned the radio up louder until the car flat lined _______ :shock:

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby RichardW » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:27 pm

Ed,

I think it is called "Restore on Power Loss" because it was envisaged that it would be useful for remote servers. You can decide when you install them whether it would be better to leave them off after a power failure or to have them attempt a reboot.

Re-applying the power is what happens to any piece of electrical equipment when you plug it in and throw the power switch. So, nothing untoward there I would suggest.

I make use of that feature by having a USB-controlled power strip that can sequence the power application to some of the sockets. These are the sockets that have my amplifiers connected. That works just as you suggest.

Normal power down is via the HW menu to shut down the computer. When that is complete I power off at the mains. When that switch is turned on next time the whole start up sequence is re-activated because the BIOS thinks it has detected a "Restore on Power Loss" situation.
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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:11 pm

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Last edited by engrssc on Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:25 pm

There are certain "house keeping" tasks that a computer does when it shuts down in the "normal" way vs removing power per se. Read Martin's post:

mdyde wrote:I'd strongly advise against 'pulling the plug' on the computer. It's highly likely to lose your settings/combinations/etc. and fairly likely to result in corrupted installations/disks too (especially if you do it with any regularity).


Considering that most servers are carefully protected from any power loss which happens very seldom if ever. Within the protection scheme, the UPS, with battery backup, allows for the servers to shut down in a controlled way. This seldom (if all else fails method) differs from removing the power to shut the computer down routinely.

Powering down, etc via the "Hauptwerk method" should work just fine. But I know of some that do the "pull the plug method" which isn't the good way. Likewise, using a sequenced power start up and shut down is good for all components.

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby RichardW » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:01 pm

I am pleased that we are all agreeing.
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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby engrssc » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:08 pm

I take the "all" to mean those who have contributed their knowledge here. Just yesterday, someone wrote an email "confirming" that he doesn't agree and that pulling the plug has worked for him for some time. Leading the horse to water scenario, maybe? Oh, well. :o

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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby ppytprs » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:06 pm

Whilst not at the level of complexity used here, it is usually possible to rewire the power switch on a computer to a button on the console, then the computer and Hauptwerk will start from a single button.
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Re: First HAUPTWERK project in a French Church

Postby ppytprs » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:45 am

Oh, and to the OP. Where do you buy the lighted stop tabs from?
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