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Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

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Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby larason2 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:29 pm

I thought I would post this as I haven’t seen many Yamahas converted to Midi for Hauptwerk. A generous local fellow was looking for someone to use this organ. I was happy to oblige - I just had to pay the cost to move it. The organ played, but it was in poor repair. I wanted to preserve the original sounds and convert it to a midi instrument for Hauptwerk, but was unable to. The organ has 2 61 key manuals (upper and lower), and a 25 key pedalboard. It also has an expression pedal, 57 switches, 21 pistons, and 10 potentiometers.

I removed pretty much everything inside except for the switches, and I cleaned and vacuumed the unit inside and out. The original wiring harness was in fairly good condition, but it would have been far too time consuming to reuse the original wires. I used new ribbon cable instead. I decided to go with the Largonet (Midi Boutique) HWCE2, which appeared to be the most affordable option. I went for the package which included the 8x8 spreader boards.

To get the old switches to work with HWCE2, I matrixed the bussed keyboards. HWCE2 uses an 8x8 matrix, which is spread into 8 connectors on the spreader boards in the kit I bought, and I didn’t realize that the circuits need to be independent for each connector. That means, I had to isolate the switches in groups of 8 so that it would work - which was tricky because the original switches are grouped in groups of 6 or 7, and each group had a common bus bar. Luckily, each key had 4-8 switches per key, so I could split each group of 8 between different layers on the switches.

Finally got everything in working order. I bought some used yorkville monitors, or use the organ with my headphones. This unit was affordable and functional for my needs, and I think it looks quite nice. The only two sample sets I have at the moment besides the one included with Hauptwerk are MDA’s St. Georgenkirche and St. Eucaire. Very different organs, but both very beautiful. I attached some labels so I could use the stop tabs for registration.

At the moment all of the stop tabs at the top work, most of the switches and pistons, as well as the two 61 key keyboards, and the pedalboard. I still have the remaining switches and pistons to solder, as well as the expression pedal. The expression pedal has been the component that has been the trickiest to sort out. It uses a light sensor, which has a logarithmic resistance output. A friend of mine suggested I use an operational amplifier to convert the logarithmic resistance to linear. I’m not a pro electrical circuitry though, so I still have to figure that out! For the moment it works pretty well, so I have been practicing my favourite Bach pieces.

Image
The organ itself.

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I didn't have room for the speakers around the organ or on top, so I put them in front of my piano.

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A closer picture of the manuals, with the labels for each stop.

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This is the Wiring for the HWCE2 circuit board. I attached the circuit boards to the wooden base with metal hardware.

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Here is the wiring of the top manual.
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby ChangedForever » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:59 pm

larason2,

Wow - interesting work - that wasn't a "weekend project", I'm sure!! I got my new expression pedals off of eBAY - they were new old stock Rodgers pedals and work GREAT (no pun intended :D)!! You can find them every now and then on eBay for good prices. Mine were new-old-stock and had original Rodgers wrapping and part numbers on them... they're digital and plugged right into the midified pedalboard I built. Worked first time... will save you some head scratching.....

Thanks for the pix,
Mark
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby profeluisegarcia » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:37 pm

Astonishing work. Congratulations. ( I always had wondered about that task could be feasible : convert Electone into HW). You gave unexpected new live to a good piece of furniture.
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby joeroberts » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:29 pm

Not to get too far off-track....
One of my HP set-ups is using a single Yamaha keyboard (PSR-E413)....which connects to my PC via a USB connection (not the old- MIDI-type)....and I use a wireless alpha-keyboard (buttons) for pistons.....
works beautifully.....
JRZ
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby mkc1 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:12 pm

Very nice, thanks for posting...gives me some ideas about what to do with my old Hammond H-112!
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby toplayer2 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:13 am

mkc1 wrote:Very nice, thanks for posting...gives me some ideas about what to do with my old Hammond H-112!


You may find this post on the VTPO forum interesting:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/VTP ... ages/29625

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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby mkc1 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:01 pm

Thanks, Joe. I'm not really that interested in MIDIfying the H-112, mainly due to the 25-note pedalboard. However it's sitting there doing nothing, and doesn't seem to have much worth as a Hammond since it's not a B3, C3, A103, RT3, etc. Perhaps I could MIDIfy it and sell it to someone who doesn't find the small pedalboard as much of an annoyance as I do. Might be appropriate for small Baroque sets, for those who like that kind of thing. Hopefully it'll be lighter with the Hammond power supply, amps, reverb, vibrato, and tone generator removed. Thanks again!

Michael
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby larason2 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:08 am

Another Hauptwerk user asked me in a private message to provide a bit more detail about the wiring I did. Since it took quite a lot of head scratching to figure it out, I thought I would help.

Setup - The original wiring harness had too much damage to it, and since HWCE2 (the board I used for the conversion) uses ribbon cables, I found it the easiest to cut all of the wires at the switch. This left a stub of wire that I then removed with a soldering iron and flux. I bought a desoldering iron, but I found that most of the contacts didn’t lend themselves to being desoldered that way - flux when used properly was way more useful. The original circuits have a number of capacitors, resistors and other elements that could be useful, but I just threw the whole lot in my local electronics recycle bin, along with the amplifier and power supply. Perhaps someone else may want to recycle and reuse those, or find someone else to use them. Once the console was gutted, I took advantage of the opportunity to clean the inside and outside of the console with soap and water, being careful to avoid the switches.

Manual wiring - The HWCE2 kit from MidiBoutique has an 8x2 matrix input. I also got the bundle with the SM8x8 spread boards. These boards take care of the need to add diodes to each matrix switch, which saves a lot of time and effort. The spread boards themselves have a 5x2 contact set for each set of 8 keys (8 switches and 2 returns). The Yamaha Electone divides the keys into boxes of 6 or 7 keys, each having between 4 and 7 switches per key with a common return rail for each set of switches. The challenge provided by this is that the SM8x8 spread boards only want one return for each 8 keys. I tried initially wiring a common return for all of the spread boards, but I think the voltage differential was too much, and the boards had too much trouble picking up the switch activations. What I did then was to use two layers of switches, so that each set of 8 keys had only one return. This is tricky, because it meant I had to wire each set of 8 on two different layers of switches, starting with the second box. To make the soldering easier, I found that I could take out all the switch boxes, then wire them all together, then transfer the boxes back to the manuals together. Tricky, but it worked out. I prepared the spread board end of the ribbon cable with the included connectors, gently tapping in the plastic top with a hammer, then cut the other end of the ribbon cable with a hobby knife to the right length, splitting each wire according to the appropriate length, and stripping the ends as I did that. I could then solder each wire to the appropriate contact. To attach the circuit boards to the wooden base, I drilled four holes per board, and attached them with metal standoffs and small hex bolts on each side. I attached the boards prior to cutting the ribbon cables, so I would have the right length in the end.

Pedal wiring - The pedal wiring was the most straight forward, as each switch was isolated, and I could wire them in sets of 8 easily. The tricky part however was soldering the switches in place, as they are very firmly attached to the bottom of the organ. I wired them into two groups so I could use the styrofoam coverings to keep the switches clean, and so the ribbon cable would come out from the left edges of the styrofoam covers. I wired the ribbon cable to a board close to the single hole in the wooden base of the manuals.

Stop tab wiring - The most complex switches were the stop tab switches at the top of my organ. These had multiple stop points, representing the different intensities of each organ stop. To wire these, I desoldered all of the resistors from the switch, then used a multimeter to find which combination of contacts represented the bottom most stop of each switch. I then soldered the ribbon cable to the appropriate positions on the multi-switch. My model also had a “rhythm section,” which is a complex switch set that turns off previous selections when a new one is selected. I wanted to use that for combinations. I also used a multimeter to find out which contacts to use, but I also found that if there were multiple channels to a return circuit, then the switch wouldn’t work. What I did was to use a hobby knife to destroy the extra channels to the return, and then the switches worked as desired.

Future directions - I still haven’t wired the expression pedal. The plan though is to connect the light bulb in the pedal to a variable resistor, then that to a 24 v transformer. That will power the light, which will let me get resistance readings from the optical resistor. A friend of mine has said he will help me figure out how to wire an operational amplifier and resistors to the circuit to get the right gain range for HWCE2 to receive a linear output from the sensor as I move the expression pedal. I have seen other, more simpler sounding wiring schemes on other forum posts but honestly I don’t understand them - so I’m going to go with what my friend can help me with. I’m not sure I’m going to wire the knee pedal - I’m quite tall and it’s in an awkward position for me to use.

Image

Here is a closeup of the wiring for a set of 13 keys. On the bottom are the contacts use to connect for each key. You'll see here for each key there are 8 contacts (though only one is used per key) On the top is the return rail wiring. The last two wires on the ribbon cable are soldered together, then to the contact for the first return rail for the first seven keys. For key number 8, the key contact is soldered to a different contact on the bottom, then the blue wire you see on top is connected from the first return rail on the left side to the second return rail on the right side. Then, this starts over for key number 9. Of note, I had to remove the resistors (hidden on this picture under the switch box) from the circuits that I was going to use, then re-wire them with ordinary wires.

Hopefully this helps!
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby Jimothy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:08 pm

Thanks for explaining further. I may consider using the encoders you have because of the ability to avoid diode work. If you had a few more pictures of the wiring that would be helpful.
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby organtechnology » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:43 am

larason2 wrote:Another Hauptwerk user asked me in a private message to provide a bit more detail about the wiring I did. Since it took quite a lot of head scratching to figure it out, I thought I would help.

Setup - The original wiring harness had too much damage to it, and since HWCE2 (the board I used for the conversion) uses ribbon cables, I found it the easiest to cut all of the wires at the switch. This left a stub of wire that I then removed with a soldering iron and flux. I bought a desoldering iron, but I found that most of the contacts didn’t lend themselves to being desoldered that way - flux when used properly was way more useful. The original circuits have a number of capacitors, resistors and other elements that could be useful, but I just threw the whole lot in my local electronics recycle bin, along with the amplifier and power supply. Perhaps someone else may want to recycle and reuse those, or find someone else to use them. Once the console was gutted, I took advantage of the opportunity to clean the inside and outside of the console with soap and water, being careful to avoid the switches.

Manual wiring - The HWCE2 kit from MidiBoutique has an 8x2 matrix input
This is actually a 8x8 matrix on a 2x8 connector. I also got the bundle with the SM8x8 spread boards. These boards take care of the need to add diodes to each matrix switch, which saves a lot of time and effort. The spread boards themselves have a 5x2 contact set for each set of 8 keys (8 switches and 2 returns). The Yamaha Electone divides the keys into boxes of 6 or 7 keys, each having between 4 and 7 switches per key with a common return rail for each set of switches. The challenge provided by this is that the SM8x8 spread boards only want one return for each 8 keys
This is actually a 1x8 matrix grouping of which there should be 8. This is another way of sending the 8x8 matrix to the HWCEx board. I tried initially wiring a common return for all of the spread boards, but I think the voltage differential was too much, and the boards had too much trouble picking up the switch activations. To use 1x64(61 keys) you need the keymux64 boards

What I did then was to use two layers of switches, so that each set of 8 keys had only one return. This is tricky, because it meant I had to wire each set of 8 on two different layers of switches, starting with the second box. To make the soldering easier, I found that I could take out all the switch boxes, then wire them all together, then transfer the boxes back to the manuals together. Tricky, but it worked out. I prepared the spread board end of the ribbon cable with the included connectors, gently tapping in the plastic top with a hammer, then cut the other end of the ribbon cable with a hobby knife to the right length, splitting each wire according to the appropriate length, and stripping the ends as I did that. I could then solder each wire to the appropriate contact. To attach the circuit boards to the wooden base, I drilled four holes per board, and attached them with metal standoffs and small hex bolts on each side. I attached the boards prior to cutting the ribbon cables, so I would have the right length in the end.

Pedal wiring - The pedal wiring was the most straight forward, as each switch was isolated, and I could wire them in sets of 8 easily. The tricky part however was soldering the switches in place, as they are very firmly attached to the bottom of the organ. I wired them into two groups so I could use the styrofoam coverings to keep the switches clean, and so the ribbon cable would come out from the left edges of the styrofoam covers. I wired the ribbon cable to a board close to the single hole in the wooden base of the manuals.

Stop tab wiring - The most complex switches were the stop tab switches at the top of my organ. These had multiple stop points, representing the different intensities of each organ stop. To wire these, I desoldered all of the resistors from the switch, then used a multimeter to find which combination of contacts represented the bottom most stop of each switch. I then soldered the ribbon cable to the appropriate positions on the multi-switch. My model also had a “rhythm section,” which is a complex switch set that turns off previous selections when a new one is selected. I wanted to use that for combinations. I also used a multimeter to find out which contacts to use, but I also found that if there were multiple channels to a return circuit, then the switch wouldn’t work. What I did was to use a hobby knife to destroy the extra channels to the return, and then the switches worked as desired.

Future directions - I still haven’t wired the expression pedal. The plan though is to connect the light bulb in the pedal to a variable resistor, then that to a 24 v transformer. That will power the light, which will let me get resistance readings from the optical resistor. A friend of mine has said he will help me figure out how to wire an operational amplifier and resistors to the circuit to get the right gain range for HWCE2 to receive a linear output from the sensor as I move the expression pedal. I have seen other, more simpler sounding wiring schemes on other forum posts but honestly I don’t understand them - so I’m going to go with what my friend can help me with. I’m not sure I’m going to wire the knee pedal - I’m quite tall and it’s in an awkward position for me to use.

Image

Here is a closeup of the wiring for a set of 13 keys. On the bottom are the contacts use to connect for each key. You'll see here for each key there are 8 contacts (though only one is used per key) On the top is the return rail wiring. The last two wires on the ribbon cable are soldered together, then to the contact for the first return rail for the first seven keys. For key number 8, the key contact is soldered to a different contact on the bottom, then the blue wire you see on top is connected from the first return rail on the left side to the second return rail on the right side. Then, this starts over for key number 9. Of note, I had to remove the resistors (hidden on this picture under the switch box) from the circuits that I was going to use, then re-wire them with ordinary wires.

Hopefully this helps!
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Re: Yamaha Electone to Hauptwerk

Postby larason2 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Organtechnology brought up a good point that I was unaware of. When I bought the SM8x8 boards I didn't know the difference between them and the keymux64 boards (and didn't until now to be honest). Having had the keymux64 boards would have been more convenient, since I could have wired a common return for all the keys. However, I'm not sure it's worth the extra 100 euros if you can work around it the way I did (that's the price difference between the bundle I got and the one with the 4 keymux64's). For organs with only one return rail, you would need to spend the extra for the keymux64 boards. Thanks to Organtechnology for bringing that to my attention.
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