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Random Noise playing large sample sets

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Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby mdbirkett » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:55 am

I have a problem with random noises (clicks, snaps, etc.) while using large sample sets in Hauptwerk 4 Advanced. This is a Windows 10 Home (64 bit) PC with an i5-8400 processor, 32GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD. For video, I am using the HDMI connector on the MSI z370 SLI Plus motherboard. My audio interface is the MOTU Ultralite Mk4, connected via USB. This problem seems to get worse depending on the size of the loaded sample set -- if I load a small sample set, I don't notice the problem, but the sample set that I use the most is the Eisenbarth (Friesach) sample set from Piotr Grabowski, which is a relatively large set.
Using the motherboard BIOS, I have disabled the motherboard on-board sound card, and I tried disabling the Ethernet port, but these changes did not help the problem. I also tried changing the priority of the Hauptwerk process to "High" in Windows 10, but that made no noticeable difference.
I had a suspicion that the cause is Windows 10 running a background process which is causing a conflict somewhere, but I am not certain how to prove/disprove this assumption, or how to trace the route cause. I tried swapping out the PC to an older i7-2700k with 32GB RAM, and had the same results, so the problem does not appear to be linked to the PC hardware. I am currently quoting a similar configuration for a church in my area, but I cannot proceed until I find a solution to this noise problem. Can any of the "Gurus" in the forum suggest any methods I can use to try to trace what the culprit of these random noises might be?
Thank you for your assistance.
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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby RichardW » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:57 am

Have you been through the relevant tutorials? https://www.hauptwerk.com/news/tutorials-computers/

Windows can be a bit tedious.

Failing that, it could just be on the borderline for RAM size. If a program gets close to using all the available RAM then strange things can happen. On a Windows PC it will move unused data to disk then have to wait to get it back when needed again.

I hope this helps,
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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby organtechnology » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:52 pm

Run a latency check to see if it is a delayed process call.

Make sure there is enough room for everything in 32GB. Hauptwerk will tell you how much memory is left.

Go through all of the PC streaming audio changes recommended by Hauptwerk and or Black Viper.

Comment: If both an i5 and an i7 are exhibiting this fault, it is probably not MOBO CPU related, the remaining suspects are drivers, DPC latency and memory shortages.

Thomas
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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby 1961TC4ME » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:49 pm

In addition to what has been suggested to look at, the fact it is larger sets where this issue shows up has me asking these two questions:

1. What do you have your polyphony limit set at?
2. What is your audio doing, i.e. is it going into the red?

And maybe question 3: Are you making use of these meters so you can see physically in real time what is going on? I always have both the polyphony and audio meters up and showing.

I have been able to produce randoms clicks and so on with larger sets by going over the limits on both audio and polyphony.

Marc
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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby mdbirkett » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:05 pm

I have gone through all of the items in the operating system optimizations document. After the sample set is loaded, Hauptwerk is indicating 7.1GB of RAM remaining. The RAM, audio, and polyphony meters are staying in the green. When one of these clicks/snaps happens, the CPU meter in Hauptwerk goes all the way into the red -- before the click happens, the CPU meter is operating in the green, so whatever the issue is, it appears to be grabbing the CPU and overloading the system. I see the same results in my older i7-2700k system as well -- all meters in the green until the click happens, and then CPU goes full red.

I have ordered another 16GB of RAM for the i5-8400, to push the system to 48GB -- I will let you know if that makes any difference.
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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby 1961TC4ME » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:59 am

Could just be coincidence on the large sets.

Have you disabled Automatic Updates?

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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby RichardW » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:12 am

If the problem is CPU dependent then you might be able to catch which application is causing the problem by monitoring the CPU usage using the Task Manager. Ctrl+Shift+Esc will get it going.

Sort by descending CPU usage and see if you can tell which application is at the top of the list when the problem occurs.

That might provide a clue as to what is taking the processing capacity away from Hauptwerk.
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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby organtechnology » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:01 am

mdbirkett wrote:I have gone through all of the items in the operating system optimizations document. After the sample set is loaded, Hauptwerk is indicating 7.1GB of RAM remaining. The RAM, audio, and polyphony meters are staying in the green. When one of these clicks/snaps happens, the CPU meter in Hauptwerk goes all the way into the red -- before the click happens, the CPU meter is operating in the green, so whatever the issue is, it appears to be grabbing the CPU and overloading the system. I see the same results in my older i7-2700k system as well -- all meters in the green until the click happens, and then CPU goes full red.

I have ordered another 16GB of RAM for the i5-8400, to push the system to 48GB -- I will let you know if that makes any difference.


This CPU on the audio indicator is not the system CPU but the CPU associated with the audio driver. You describe a system which uses ASIO drivers but has an audio driver problem or a DPC Latency problem which causes the loss of an audio packet(s).

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Re: Random Noise playing large sample sets

Postby mdbirkett » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:00 pm

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!

At long last, the click, pops, and snaps are gone -- I just needed Thomas to point me in the right direction. Below are the steps that I took (just in case somebody else comes across the same issue).

1. In the BIOS -- Disable HPET
2. In Control Panel, open Power Options, and change from "Balanced" to "High performance"
3. Open a Command Prompt window in "Run as administrator" mode, and enter the following:
3a. bcdedit /set useplatformclock No
3b. bcdedit /set tscsyncpolicy Enhanced
3c. bcdedit /set disabledynamictick Yes
4. Reboot

Now, I rarely see even the first green bar in the CPU indicator in Hauptwerk. I have seen a couple of spikes, but I have not heard any audio problems since making these changes. I can finally listen to the Eisenbarth (Friesach) sample set, and enjoy this beautiful instrument without having to worry about blowing up my headphones (or eardrums) -- whoo whooooo!

Murray
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