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Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...

Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby quintadenaceleste » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:19 pm

I've followed John Murdoch’s tutorial for setup to the letter. At least I *think* I have! All the settings appear to be right (in Sibelius’ sound configuration & mixer, and in Hauptwerk’s Sequencer Midi In & Audio output settings), but when I play his Corelli example file, I’m only getting non-pitched percussive sounds (yet the sounds get higher and lower as is notated). To be honest, they really they sound like mini-explosions or video game gun shots; no sounds come from the St. Anne’s Moseley organ. I also tried making a new score with John’s manuscript paper & house style ... but again, I only get the explosions. In Hauptwerk, the MIDI lights do not flash at all while the Sibelius file is playing, so there's clearly a breakdown somewhere. I've closed the programs, rebooted several times, made sure I loaded Sibelius first, then Hauptwerk, etc.

FYI—I’m on a Mac Mini (mid 2011) with 8gb RAM running Yosemite. I'm using Hauptwerk 4.2 (free) with Sibelius 7.1.3, but I've also tried this in Sibelius 6.2—with exactly the same results. Also, this install is purely for the purposes of the VST link, so I don’t have any console-type or midi hardware attached.

I'm not sure what other information might be helpful, but I’ve about given up ... Does anyone have any ideas of what I might have missed?
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Re: Sibelius 7/Hauptwerk 4

Postby John Murdoch » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:35 pm

Hi!

Let's walk through the tutorial, step by step, but adapt a bit to reflect the minor changes in file locations between Sibelius 6 and Sibelius 7.

First, the tutorial, on Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6, which you can find here: http://www.windgap.com/music/UsingHauptwerk4WithSibelius6.pdf

Second, a bit of background on the changes in Sibelius between version 6 and version 7. The big changes for most users is the user interface--the big change for those of us configuring Sibelius to work with Hauptwerk is the change in the root directory (folder) into which we'll install all of the custom configuration files we'll need to use. This was a big issue for version 6 users--so much so that the Sibelius team (who helped with this project, informally) gave us a gift: the Sibelius 7 installer installs a link to the folder we need to find (they also made it simpler to find the Hauptwerk VST files, for Windows users--but we'll get to that in a minute).

Which is to say, do this install with Sibelius 7.1.3.

Third, note that the tutorial is written with the assumption that you already have Sibelius properly installed. That means that you can open a score, set your playback configuration, and use the Mixer to assign virtual instruments to specific staves.

Fourth, I've been surprised at the number of people who have found this tutorial helpful. Dozens and dozens of people have emailed me--several have gone to the trouble to find my phone number and call. Hundreds of people have downloaded the configuration files, and the Sibelius sound set files. (And a vendor of Sibelius sound sets seemed a trifle put off that I was giving this away for free.)

So I'll write this from the perspective of helping you--but also including information for others as well. (This is particularly significant for Windows users, because both Hauptwerk and Sibelius have to agree on which folder on your computer contains the Hauptwerk VST files.)

Got all that? Let's get started in the next message....
Last edited by John Murdoch on Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sibelius 7/Hauptwerk 4

Postby John Murdoch » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:05 pm

Before we install Hauptwerk, let's check that Sibelius is installed correctly.

The tutorial toolkit (http://www.windgap.com/music/HauptwerkSibelius6.zip) includes a sample Sibelius file. Open that file in Sibelius 7, and follow these steps:

  • Change your playback configuration to Sibelius 7 Sounds (from the ribbon: Play|Configuration|Sibelius 7 Sounds)
  • Open the Mixer (type the letter "M", or select it (again, from the ribbon,) from View|Panels.
  • Grab the top border of the mixer, and drag it up--till you see the Reverb and Chorus controls at the top.
  • You will see six music channels: two for Swell (Sw.); two for Great (Grt.); one for the Pedal (Ped.); and one for the Click track. (The Click track is muted--leave it alone.)
  • For each music channel, set the Playback Device to Sibelius Player, then select the virtual instrument on that player to assign to each channel in the dropdown menu immediately below.
  • For the Swell channels, choose Sibelius 7 Sounds|Keyboard|Organ|Skinner Organ Swell. Similarly, assign the Great channels to Skinner Organ Great, and the Pedal to Skinner Organ Pedal.

Got all that done? From the ribbon, choose the Play menu, and click that big green Play icon--you should hear a single rank for each voice, of a very dry sound set. Might be a bit less than what you're expecting--but what we're out to do is be sure that your Sibelius installation is capable of producing the right kind of noise, before we install Hauptwerk.

If you do NOT hear three ranks of a very dry organ sample set (the MDA Skinner Our Lady of Mt. Carmel Dry, by the way, licensed to Avid), then you have an audio configuration problem with Sibelius. Not to put you off, but your best solution to that challenge is to ask for help on the Sibelius Support Forum, at http://www.sibelius.com.

(Windows users: From hard experience, I can tell you that if you do not get sound from your audio interface, it is very possibly because your computer has entered Sleep or Hibernate mode since you booted the computer--and the audio interface has "hung." If that's the case, your simplest fix is to reboot the computer--and figure out (see Energy Settings from Control Panel) how to make sure that your computer turns off the monitor, but never, ever, ever enters Sleep or Hibernate mode.)

If you do hear music, we're in business. We just need to install Hauptwerk, and do a bit of configuration. On to the next message...
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Re: Sibelius 7/Hauptwerk 4

Postby John Murdoch » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:26 pm

Installing Hauptwerk 4:

Follow the instructions in the Hauptwerk documentation. BUT--if you are a Windows user, make absolutely sure that you choose the option for a Custom install. If you skip this step, you will have to reinstall--you can only specify the location of your VST plug-in files during installation.

(This isn't that big a deal. Martin Dyde is brilliant--if you re-launch the installer, his code is clever enough to recognize that you have already installed, and just need to change your installation settings. You do not have to reload all of St. Annnes Moseley.)

When you choose the Custom install option, you will select a file folder where you will install your VST plug-ins. You will reference this directory from Audio Engine Setup in Sibelius, so it knows how to communicate with Hauptwerk. I created a folder named "VST Plug-ins" on my C drive. (This is Windows-specific; Mac users do not need to specify this.)

During installation you will be asked to select MIDI ports. If you are not connecting a MIDI console, select the check box labeled "Sequencer MIDI IN (advanced usage)" on the row labeled "Hauptwerk VST Link." If you miss this step, you don't have to reinstall--select "MIDI Ports..." from the General Settings menu.

Configure Hauptwerk to communicate with Sibelius
From Hauptwerk's General Settings menu, select the "Audio Outputs" menu. (See page 7 of the tutorial.) Specify that you're using the Hauptwerk VST Link as your Audio Output Device.

Macintosh users communicate with Hauptwerk using Apple's proprietary AU protocol. Windows users use Steinberg's VST technology--both Hauptwerk and Sibelius work with each. But the subtleties of each method differ--I'm entirely familiar with the Windows process, and not familiar at all with the process on a Mac. This is precisely why, in the tutorial introduction, I went to some pains to emphasize that Mac users might find my instructions a bit lacking. Right here, right now, is where and when that's the case.

Next step: we add the custom configuration files to Sibelius. Next message...
Last edited by John Murdoch on Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sibelius 7/Hauptwerk 4

Postby John Murdoch » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:12 pm

Installing the custom configuration files in Sibelius 7:

In the Sibelius 6 tutorial I wrote a whole lot of words, and included two pictures, to help explain how to add the configuration files, and--most importantly--where to put them. In Sibelius 7 this is much, much easier.

From the Start button (Windows) or Finder (Mac, and the labels may vary) open the menu options for "All Programs" and then "Avid". You will see that one of the menu options that displays on the Avid flyout menu is a folder shortcut to "Sibelius 7 User Data." Click that option, to launch a view of your custom user data folder.

In the tutorial toolkit (the ZIP file, from the link included in a message above) there is a folder named "Sibelius 6". Under that you will find four more folders:
  • House Styles
  • Manuscript Paper
  • Playback Configurations
  • Sounds


Your user data folder (the folder that displayed when you clicked on the "Sibelius 7 User Data" link) contains all of the custom configurations for Sibelius--style sheets, manuscript paper, etc. You'll copy the contents of the folders in the toolkit into the folders in your user data directory.

The default installation of Sibelius does not automatically create all of those folders. If you do not see them in your user data folder, you can create the folders you need. Or, you can drag the folder in the ZIP file into your user data folder--which will create the new folder, and copy the contents of the folder into place. The tutorial covers this in more detail on page 11--pay careful attention, but it's not hard to do.

The ZIP file also includes the test: the Corelli score that you can play, once you have got everything set up, and compare to the recording I have posted on Contrebombarde Concert Hall. Copy that to your desktop, or a folder of your scores, or wherever best suits your needs.

If you are a Windows user: add the Hauptwerk VST plug-in to Sibelius
  • If you are a Windows user, from the Play menu, on the Configuration panel, click on the little Setup icon, just below the Mixer button
  • That will display the Playback Devices dialog.
  • From there, click on the "Audio Engine Options" button to display the Audio Engine Options dialog.
  • There, click on the Folders button to specify the location of your VST Plug-ins folder.
  • Once you have done that, click the Rescan button, and close Sibelius
  • Re-open Sibelius, and continue below.

Opening Sibelius, and Selecting Your Hauptwerk Configuration
  • Launch Sibelius.
  • Launch Hauptwerk, and open the St. Annes Moseley organ.
  • Using Sibelius, open the Corelli score.
  • From the (Sibelius) Play menu, choose Configuration--select the (new!) Hauptwerk 4 configuration option.
  • Click the Rewind icon on the ribbon to go back to the beginning of your score, and...
  • Click on that big green Play button.
  • And you'll hear nothing but the dull thuds of the organ keys. Because (I do this All. The. Time) you have not selected any organ ranks. Use the registration options on page 12 of the tutorial, and give it another go.

Do you hear music?
You should.

If you do not hear music, the first thing to check is whether you were able to select the Hauptwerk 4 configuration directly from the Play menu. If you could not find it, then your configuration files are not installed in the correct directory.

If you can select the Hauptwerk 4 configuration, the next thing to check is whether your keystrokes (the MIDI note-on/note-off commands sent from Sibelius) are getting to Hauptwerk. On the Mixer, look at the MIDI channel number assigned to each rank. The Swell channels should be on Channel 3; Great should be on Channel 2; and Pedal should be on Channel 1.

When your channels are set properly, clicking on a note, or playing a series of notes, will cause the keyboard on the corresponding manual in Hauptwerk to play. Click on the little "speaker" icon on the "Grt. (a)" channel on the Mixer--you'll see a brief scale played on the Great manual--and you should hear it as well.

If you see the keys move, but do not hear anything, make sure you have at least one stop in Hauptwerk, for the manual you're testing, pulled. If you have stops selected, see keys move, but still do not hear anything, double-check that you can get audio out of Sibelius using a different virtual instrument (such as Sibelius 7 Player). Also, be sure that you do not have a (or all) music channels on the Mixer muted. (If the little red "M" icon is lit, that channel is muted--you won't get sound.)

The Hauptwerk VST Link is like a two-way street--MIDI keystrokes come to Hauptwerk, and audio output goes back to Sibelius. I've never had a circumstance where keystrokes got to Hauptwerk, but audio didn't go back. If you see keystrokes on your Hauptwerk manual, audio is being returned to Sibelius--check your output levels on the Mixer, and your audio output levels on your audio interface. And (let's not leave any possibility out of this) check that your audio system, and speakers, are turned on.

There's more to this: there are six more pages in the tutorial on how to extend the custom sound set and stuff like that. The overwhelming majority of users get to the point where they hear music and just forget the rest--some users have gone for days without food or sleep, just exulting in what they can do. (One exasperated wife emailed to say she was going to name me as a co-respondent in the divorce.)

When you have everything configured properly, choose the registration options on page 12, and play the Corelli piece. Then listen to my recording, on Contrebombarde:

http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/5094

You should hear exactly the same thing.

Questions? Bring 'em.
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby quintadenaceleste » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:41 am

You, sir, are so very kind and thoughtful to have written these posts in reply ... I was blown away when I logged into the forums just now to see all of this—no words can adequately express my thanks. Your incredible tutorial has clearly been such a gift to a great many, and I'm going to go through, very carefully, all that you have said here and I'll let you know how I do. Of course, I have thought all along that your tutorial was not lacking in any way, but rather something I must have missed or screwed up, or something on the Mac side of things which I've not gotten right. I suppose there are plenty of opportunities for mishaps along the way. At any rate, I thank you for your help!
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby quintadenaceleste » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:46 pm

I promised to write back with my results … I ended up doing a complete nuke & pave of my Mac. Mostly other issues necessitated this, but I hoped there would be a good side effect for my Hauptwerk-Sibelius link effort. I then reinstalled Sibelius 7.1.3 with all the many gigabytes of sound files, and reinstalled Hauptwerk. Sibelius sounds work fine and I can hear the dry Skinner set just fine.

Alas, though, the Hauptwerk link still doesn’t work! Here’s what’s happening: In Sibelius, the “Hauptwerk VST Link 32-bit” device does not show up in the list of playback devices to be activated even though its .fxb file is properly in the “Hauptwerk 4 Playback (1.1) data” folder under the Playback Configurations folder. In Sibelius, the only devices that show up in the device list are 1) DLSMusicDevice (MIDI) 2) MIDISynth (AU) 3) AUSampler (AU) and 4) Sibelius Player (Sibelius). Without that Hauptwerk device showing up (and I’ve restarted Sibelius many times, especially after clicking that “rescan” devices button), the link simply can’t be made. I don’t know why it won’t appear in the list. Obviously, the other devices are useless.

So, I guess the question is, who out there has a Mac, Sibelius 7.1.3., and actually has this working? I’d love to hear from you and compare notes! Perhaps I should start another thread …
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby mdyde » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:58 am

Hello quintadenaceleste,

We don't officially support Sibelius 7 or 8 yet, but I would have expected them to work anyway. From my tests of the demos of Sibelius 8.0 on both Windows and Mac, it seems that Sibelius 8 works properly with the the HauptwerkVSTLink on Windows, but Sibelius 8 on OS X doesn't appear to find either of the the HauptwerkAULink or HauptwerkVSTLink plug-ins. I can't see any reason why that should be, and I couldn't find any reasons in Sibelius' documentation, so we might potentially have to look into working with Avid to add support for Sibelius 8 for a future Hauptwerk version. (We have that logged in our database of things to look at for a future version.)

(Hauptwerk's AU and VST Link plug-ins are both 64-bit capable, which I understand that Sibelius 8 requires.)

If your Sibelius 7 installation can't find the plug-ins either then I would guess that Sibelius 7 is affected similarly, although from posts from other Hauptwerk/Sibelius users on our forum some people do use Sibelius 7 successfully with Hauptwerk. I'm not sure whether any of them are using Macs.

Hauptwerk 4.2.0+ versions user a more-recent version of Apple's Audio Unit libraries than Hauptwerk v4.0.x and v4.1.x did (Hauptwerk v3 and earlier didn't have AU or VST support at all on the Mac platform), which might conceivably have some bearing, although that shouldn't be relevant to VST plug-ins.

I found this thread on Sibelius' forum:

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=552129&groupid=3&&guest=1

... which says that:

- There is/was a bug in Sibelius 7 on the Mac platform whereby Sibelius couldn't see VST plug-ins at all. (I don't know whether they fixed that bug in Sibelius 8 or not. Perhaps not, given that they still don't appear to be found for me.)

- It might have been necessary to run Sibelius 7 in 32-bit in order for it to see some AU plug-ins. Hauptwerk's plug-ins have full support for both 32-bit and 64-bit, so that really shouldn't be necessary theoretically, but I suppose it's conceivable that Sibelius 7 would only find plug-ins that were strictly 32-bit-only. Since Sibelius 8 (and perhaps later Sibelius 7 versions) are 64-bit-only, I can't try that, but it could be interesting for you to try, if you have a chance. (use 'Get Info' on the Sibelius application in /Applications, select 'Open in 32-bit mode', then re-launch Sibelius. If you don't see the 32-bit option then your version of Sibelius doesn't have 32-bit support.)

Failing that, unless Sibelius' technical support, or any other Hauptwerk/Sibelius users, can suggest anything, then I think you might have to use an alternative method to connect the two applications together for now. (You could perhaps use OS X's IAC Driver to route MIDI from Sibelius to Hauptwerk, and then output audio directly from Hauptwerk, unless you also needed to use other virtual instruments in Sibelius, in which case the latter probably wouldn't be possible.

Sorry that I don't have any additional ideas at this point in time.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby quintadenaceleste » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:36 am

Mr. Dyde ... THANK YOU! What a helpful and informative post ... you are indeed a brilliant man and I now have it working! It's almost unbelievable considering all the time I've spent on this and the constant failures. What a joy to pull stops in Hauptwerk and hear them in Sibelius!

Running Sibelius 7 in 32-bit mode (which I didn't know I could do) did not work--Sibelius still won't see the Hauptwerk VST. However, what DID work was connecting the programs via IAC. With a quick internet search and some common sense, I got it working in about 2 minutes.

So, for others on Macs who are looking to do this, first make sure you've copied John Murdoch's Hauptwerk configuration files into the appropriate folders (Users/YourUserName/Library/Application Support/Avid). In Sibelius, go to the Playback Configuration > Audio Engine Options > click Rescan. Close Sibelius.

Enable the IAC driver by loading the Audio Midi Setup program (Application > Utilities > Audio Midi Setup, then select the top menu item Window > Show MIDI studio). Double-click the IAC driver icon, click the More Information arrow, click Ports. Make sure that at least one port is in the list, like IAC Bus 1. If it's not, click the Add Port button. Make sure the box is checked for "Device is Online". Click Apply. Close that window and the Audio Midi Setup.

Start Sibelius. Load up John's Corelli demo file. Go to Playback Configuration Setup. Now choose the Hauptwerk configuration, and activate the IAC Bus 1 device which should now be in the list of devices. Then, under the Manual Sound Sets tab, choose the "Hauptwerk 4 Sounds" sound set, check the "Use Manual Sound Set" box, and add all the channels so that they match the picture in John's tutorial (page 17), then close the sound configuration.

Start Hauptwerk. Under MIDI Ports (MIDI IN tab), choose IAC Driver Bus 1 and check the "Sequencer MIDI IN" box. In Audio Outputs, choose "Built-in Output" for the Audio output device. Recording format: 32-bit. Load up the St. Anne's, Moseley organ, draw some stops, and then play the Corelli file in Sibelius. And ... it should work!

I've learned a lot in this process and I can only help that the information here may help someone else struggling to make all this work. Again, many thanks to John Murdoch and Martin Dyde!
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby mdyde » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:52 am

Thanks -- glad it helped. You're very welcome.

quintadenaceleste wrote:Running Sibelius 7 in 32-bit mode (which I didn't know I could do) did not work--Sibelius still won't see the Hauptwerk VST.


Just for our reference, did it then see the HauptwerkAULink plug-in? Note also that you'd probably need to use Sibelius' 'Rescan' plug-ins button in its 'Audio engine' settings screen (a sub-screen from its playback devices screen), then re-launch Sibelius (again in 32-bit mode) before it would probably pick any 'new' plug-ins up.
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby quintadenaceleste » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:30 am

Yes, I believe I did all of that in the correct order ... pressed "rescan" first, closed Sibelius, then changed it to open in 32-bit mode. I recopied the .fxb file to the Hauptwerk folder (under the Playback Configurations folder) then relaunched Sibelius. The Hauptwerk device was still not in the list. However, to be sure, I'll try all of this on my work computer as well and let you know.
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby mdyde » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:48 am

Thanks very much. In that case, it would appear that it isn't related to 32-bit/64-bit support in Sibelius.

(The .fxb file shouldn't matter with regard to whether the Hauptwerk plug-ins are found by Sibelius or not.)
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby quintadenaceleste » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:07 pm

I've now tried this on my work computer and I'm able to confirm that the Hauptwerk device won't show up in the list whether Sibelius is running in 32-bit or 64-bit mode. But I'm really happy that the Hauptwerk-Sibelius link works perfectly now!
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby mdyde » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:31 pm

Thanks again for the tests and information.

Glad to hear you have a work-around anyway.
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Re: Sibelius/Hauptwerk link makes explosive-like sounds

Postby b_physics_guy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:10 am

I can't change which MIDI channel Sibelius attaches to each staff. It likes to send the pedals on CH 3.
It starts out with the Swell assigned to CH1. So I thought I would just go to Sibelius:Home:Add or Remove and then move the Swell to the bottom of the score and pretend it was the pedal, but then it reassigns the Swell to Ch 2.
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