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Looking for a piano sample (set?)

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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TheOrganDoc

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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostFri Mar 07, 2014 12:53 pm

Hello JSO,
I found my "VI Labs, Grand sample set" to be amazingly realistic,
although it required much customer service help to get it playing.
If you have touch-Midi output,
and high quality speakers, you will be hard pressed to find fault with these sets! :D
They are not simulations, they are very high quality samples !
Mel - - ( I have no affiliation with VI Labs, other than having their Steinway sample set)
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostSun Mar 09, 2014 2:27 am

VI Lab's Ravenscroft 274 http://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-Labs is equally amazing. Unfortunately (of course) playing a piano, no matter how good it sounds, just doesn't "feel": right on an organ keyboard.

Rgds,
Ed
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ernst

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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostSun Mar 09, 2014 10:57 am

Hi Ed,

Of course you´re right. I do have the VI Labs Fazioli (and Bechstein) and Ravenscroft (not working yet) and can use them on either the organ or the Yamaha piano I have and obviously the difference is large. The number of octaves of course but primarily and foremost the touch. On the organ any key gives a very loud sound of always the same volume while on the piano you have the indispensable power of touch expression. I¨m fortunate to have that Yamaha still.

Ernst
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ernst

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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostSun Mar 09, 2014 10:57 am

sorry for a duplicate post
Ernst
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostSun Mar 09, 2014 11:42 pm

ernst wrote:but primarily and foremost the touch. On the organ any key gives a very loud sound of always the same volume while on the piano you have the indispensable power of touch expression. I¨m fortunate to have that Yamaha still.


I have a touch response on the choir manual, which to some extent gives the touch expression you refer to. But playing a real (acoustic) piano has a different "feel/ouch" as you can actually feel the hammers moving and striking the strings. Some virtual (electronic) pianos do a fair job in this regard, but most fall short of the real thing. In some of the best piano controllers (as they are called) there incorporated real hammer action with 3 sensors per key which do quite a good job of replicating the feel of a real piano. This obviously costs some $$$. http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/vpc-1/vpc-1.html 8)

A similar comparison exists when comparing a real pipe organ to digital/virtual pipe organs even Hauptwerk. But for all of the items in the plus column, H/W does the best job in my book.

I haven't (yet) convinced my wife that I need one of these very good piano controllers. I'm still "paying her off" for some of my VPO expenses. :roll:

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostMon Mar 10, 2014 12:57 am

Ed,

I have had 2 real pianos in my life - a Grotrian Steinweg and a Bechstein A8. Where I live now those sort of jewels are no option :( . My Yamaha Clavinova CPL 270 has a so-called "GH3 keyboard" which Yamaha describes as follows:
"This keyboard has Yamaha's proprietary third sensor, the Damper Sensor. It enables the pianist to play the same note in rapid succession without cutting off the sound, enabling performances only possible on a grand piano. As with the GH keyboard, the lower keys are heavier and the higher keys are lighter, faithfully reproducing the differences in feel."
Although it´s not perfect and not the real thing, it comes reasonably close. You can adjust the sensitivity of the action in the software.
It does (with trouble) what a real piano can do: you can play velvetly or hit the keys REALLY hard and I do mean HARD - and that works with this Yamaha. If I can´t get that sarisfaction, I quit.

So, Ed, there is no option. I hate the word piano controller but probably that´s really what it is. I prefer to imagine I´m playing a real piano, and with the VILabs Fazioli I can - easily. It´s more beautiful (but not as real) as my Bechstein was. I also do have a VILabs Bechstein for sentimental reasons, but it´s no comparison to the Fazioli.
i have not tried the American Grand (Steinway). All experts I´ve read say don´t. Apart from the haughty attitude, the quality level is not reliable. Everyone (I take serious) recommend the German version of the Steinway as being the real "American" juwel. But you can´t get it in the USA....
Of course it can´t stand the comparison with a Fazioli.
I´m VERY curious how my just acquired Ravenscroft (not operational yet) is coming out.

It does cost some $$$. I bought my Yamaha 9 years ago so it does not hurt anymore.
Maybe you could find a second hand? Their native sound is not impressive anymore these days, but if just the keyboard is a hammer action one...
And, you can try to use its speakers. You can by connecting an stereo analogue out of your sound card to the aux in. In my case it does work, but I prefer by far the DAC plus headphones which I also use for Hauptwerk. You´ve got to place the piano near your organ console though.
For that reason, I have to negotiate to get in and out my study....

Ernst
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostMon Mar 10, 2014 6:17 am

I am a professional piano tuner-technician and the VI Labs, Steinway Grand sample set
is the best piano set to date.
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostMon Mar 10, 2014 9:56 am

FarnumA440 wrote:I am a professional piano tuner-technician and the VI Labs, Steinway Grand sample set
is the best piano set to date.


Agree altho I find the other offerings from VI Labs are right up there with really good. I, too, haven't had time to setup the Ravenscroft yet, but from others, I've heard it is also very good. Playing back a H/W organ's MIDI recording and then adding a grand piano is a big WOW as well.

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostMon Mar 10, 2014 10:32 am

FarnumA440 wrote:I am a professional piano tuner-technician and the VI Labs, Steinway Grand sample set
is the best piano set to date.


Hi Farnum, I was talking about the real Steinway, not the sample set. You might have a look here:
http://www.georgekolasis.com/steinway.html

There are excellent Steinways and fur sure VILabs has done a superb job of sampling one.
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostTue Mar 11, 2014 12:56 am

Oh my,

I´ve got the VILabs Ravenscroft working now and I don´t know of words to describe it. It´s another level of realism and ecstasy.
I never thought that a virtual sample set could achieve surpassing the real thing (well, I never heard a real Ravenscroft so I just compare it to my memories of playing grand pianos).
It´s not cheap for a virtual piano, but quite affordable compared to most VPOs.
I recently bought St Maximin - what a marvel - so probably you can understand that the hours of my Hauptwerk PC are limited by what my hands can take...
So that is why I´m posting this, because I can´t play anymore - just today I hope.

Ernst
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostWed Mar 19, 2014 4:34 am

[Topic moved here.]
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostMon May 18, 2020 2:47 pm

TheOrganDoc wrote:Hello JSO,
I found my "VI Labs, Grand sample set" to be amazingly realistic,
although it required much customer service help to get it playing.
If you have touch-Midi output,
and high quality speakers, you will be hard pressed to find fault with these sets! :D
They are not simulations, they are very high quality samples !
Mel - - ( I have no affiliation with VI Labs, other than having their Steinway sample set)


PS, May 2020, After about a year of playing My VI Steinway with My Hauptwerk, It Suddenly stopped playing, after calling customer service, I was told that my Win-Vista Computer was NO LONGER COMPATIBLE with VI Pianos ! ( Most Disappointing ! ) I will need to buy a
New Computer, In Order to Play My Steinway, and also Hauptwerk v 5, "Sad as My Original Organs Play So Well". My very best wishes to Everyone at Hauptwerk, and also Everyone Reading this ! Mel, ---TheOrganDoc--- :D
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
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TheOrganDoc

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Re: Looking for a piano sample (set?)

PostMon May 18, 2020 3:04 pm

TheOrganDoc wrote:
TheOrganDoc wrote:Hello,

I found my "VI Labs, Grand sample set" to be amazingly realistic,
although it required much customer service help to get it playing.
If you have touch-Midi output,
and high quality speakers, you will be hard pressed to find fault with these sets! :D
They are not simulations, they are very high quality samples !
Mel - - ( I have no affiliation with VI Labs, other than having their Steinway sample set)


PS, May 2020, After about a year of playing My VI Steinway with My Hauptwerk, It Suddenly stopped playing, after calling customer service, I was told that my Win-Vista Computer was NO LONGER COMPATIBLE with VI Pianos ! ( Most Disappointing ! ) I will need to buy a
New Computer, In Order to Play My Steinway, and also Hauptwerk v 5, "Sad as My Original Organs Play So Well". My very best wishes to Everyone at Hauptwerk, and also Everyone Reading this ! Mel, ---TheOrganDoc--- :D


More,,,, Years ago I connected a Player Grand System, to a set of 61 Relays, and then on to A Wurlitzer Pipe Organ at 16-8-&4 foot pitches, The Organist Loved playing it ! Mel
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
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