Roland C-330 MIDI implementation

Does anybody out there use a Roland C-330 (or similar) with Hauptwerk?
We need to know if the stop tabs and swell pedals send usable MIDI signals, and if so, what kind?

The Rodgers/Roland people here in UK won't answer questions over the phone, so I tried several Rodgers dealers in the US; most of them didn't understand the question, and none of them knew the answer.

I don't, but I know someone who has used one for several years now. I don't recall him using individual stop tabs to control individual HW stops, but the MIDI A/B function well, and can be used to control instruments with more than 2 manuals from the C330. The combination action is properly recognized by HW, and the swell pedal also works. Based on it's newness, and my experience using Rodgers and Roland MIDI implementations before, I suspect the stops would also work to control HW functions.

[mdyde]

[Topic moved here.]

Thanks, Martin.
Apologies for posting in the wrong place.

Does anybody out there use a Roland C-330 (or similar) with Hauptwerk?
We need to know if the stop tabs and swell pedals send usable MIDI signals, and if so, what kind?

The Rodgers/Roland people here in UK won't answer questions over the phone, so I tried several Rodgers dealers in the US; most of them didn't understand the question, and none of them knew the answer.

I use a Roland C380, which seems to be almost the same hardware as the C330. Yes, stop tabs send MIDI Sysex messages, totally compatible with Hauptwerk. In fact, each tab can send up to 4 different Sysex messages, according to which "voice palette" a given tab is assigned. Coupler tabs are not hard wired and do send their own MIDI sysex messages, so someone could assign different functions to them if desired. Swell Pedal (there's only one) does send expression or volume 0-127 data over one of the manual channels. I/P Encl switches the channels on which expression pedal will send its 0-127 data, so it could command two virtually independent pedals. Unfortunately, not every piston is MIDI enabled. All the 15 general/divisional pistons does not send their own MIDI messages. Their only recover internally stored combinations, which (stops) will send their MIDI sysex messages by their own. It might be possible to do a trick assigning to each piston a given internal voice among those 200, which would trigger HW functions/combinations. If so, I do not know how it could be done. M-, M+, Prev, Next, Set, 0, Kick Swell L/R pistons (I think this one is exclusive to the C380) and most knobs and all hardwired. There's another operation mode called PC, but I do not know exactly what's the difference between this and the default (STOP MAP) one.

Compared to the Viscount Chorale console I use to attach my HW portable hardware, the Roland C330/C380 is definitely more MIDI friendlier than the Viscount, although the Local Off is not immune to power off like it does with the Viscount.

Hope these information is enough for you.

That is extremely helpful. Many thanks!

I have a C-330 and HW demo, and I've tried all things possible with this organ and HW, if you set PC you can use the C-330 pistons to store your HW combinations, and if you set STOP MAP you can use the Roland Stops to select the HW stops, but if you need pistons combination you have to select PC again, both things are not usable at the same time, C-330 is very good to use as console to drive HW, buy in my opinion there are two things a have to say, the C-330 is very good in sounds by it self, and is very difficult to find an HW organ sample that sound as good as the roland without expending a lot of money in a good audio system and with the HW itself, the money that cost an HW system is not worth ( to expensive) compared to the C-330 (the only thing that I'm missing is the 3rd keyboard, and then there is the latency of HW (terrible) unless you set the audio to 256. I'm happy with my C-330 and after investigating with HW demo I decided not to buy it, good luck.

[mdyde]

I have a C-330 and HW demo, and I've tried all things possible with this organ and HW, if you set PC you can use the C-330 pistons to store your HW combinations, and if you set STOP MAP you can use the Roland Stops to select the HW stops, but if you need pistons combination you have to select PC again, both things are not usable at the same time, C-330 is very good to use as console to drive HW, buy in my opinion there are two things a have to say, the C-330 is very good in sounds by it self, and is very difficult to find an HW organ sample that sound as good as the roland without expending a lot of money in a good audio system and with the HW itself, the money that cost an HW system is not worth ( to expensive) compared to the C-330 (the only thing that I'm missing is the 3rd keyboard, and then there is the latency of HW (terrible) unless you set the audio to 256. I'm happy with my C-330 and after investigating with HW demo I decided not to buy it, good luck.

Hello atugores,

Sorry to hear that your experience with trying Hauptwerk wasn't positive. I do think it's important to point out that (on Windows/PCs) the latency you will get depends massively on the audio interface you use. With a high-quality, professional audio/MIDI interface (RME, MOTU, etc.) and a buffer size of 256 the latency shouldn't be noticeable at all -- about 6 milliseconds, which is the equivalent to playing a real pipe organ whilst sitting only about 2 metres away from the pipework.

The audio interface (especially on Windows/PCs), and of course also the speakers/headphones/amplifiers, will potentially also make a very big difference to audio quality and the computer you use (amount of CPU power, RAM, etc.) is also important in order to get high performance, especially with large sample sets.

Hence the computer hardware, and audio/MIDI hardware, really does matter a lot ( https://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads/documentation/PDF/HauptwerkBackgroundTechnicalInfoOnComputerHardware.pdf ).

However, we do of course appreciate that those things have costs (although even top-spec. equipment would usually be a fraction of the cost of a new digital organ), and that computer-based audio/MIDI instruments aren't for everyone.

Anyway, thanks for trying it.

I appreciate your comment, but as I'm saying to get a very good response from HW it is necessary to spend a lot of money, with the test I realized during more or less six month, I have used and RME midi/audio interface and an audio equipment of six speakers with an approximate cost of 12.000€ (apron. 12.000$) so I do not think this is the fact, the fact is that we are talking about a C-330 Roland organ that in europe cost about 5.000€ with an excellent sound palate, in fact 4 organs, if you want to add HW to that C-330 and obtain a good pipe organ sound (and I have to say that nothing in the world will be as a really pipe organ) you need almost the double to be satisfied. HW is really a good software but is very expensive if you want a good result, at home C-330 is more than sufficient. About latency what I'm saying is that with more than 256 you have a lot of latency even with a good equipment, no latency with C-330, not latency with real pipe organ if player is seated around the organ, latency is the result of a distance between player and sound source, al home there should not latency. thank you to let me express my opinion.

[mdyde]

Hello atugores,

Thanks for your opinions. We do of course respect that a digital organ may be a better fit for some people's preferences.

As a follow-up to my original post, and to provide some balance to this thread:

We eventually got an excellent response by phoning the Technical Support Manager at Rodgers HQ in Oregon.
The post (above) by "abaymajr" was also very helpful.

One can of course easily spend $/€12,000, as "atugores" did; but it isn't essential.
But my customer is now very happy, having spent less than GB£2,000 for his Hauptwerk software, a dedicated Windows PC, M-Audio Fast Track C600 interface, a touchscreen monitor, and Volume 1 of the Salisbury Willis.
Audio is being routed back into the sound system of his Rodgers organ (internal + external speakers).

[mdyde]

Thanks, Douglas.

One can of course easily spend $/€12,000, as "atugores" did; but it isn't essential.

(Just a slight clarification -- atugores didn't actually buy a Hauptwerk system of his own. My understanding from his post was that he tried somebody else's $/€12,000 system.)

This is correct I try HW demo and HW with license from a friend with different audio systems and computer, the computer was a iMac i7 dual core with 16 ram, audio card RME, first try Audio is being routed back into the sound system of my C-330 roland, and finally the audio system with an amplifier Emitter II (http://asraudio.com/Epdf/IEEmitter2.pdf)
With the C-330 internal audio system you can listen to it but the result is not absolutely satisfying (the organ was Cavaille Coll Caen from MA), with the Emitter and two JBL speakers model 4425 and two Genelec 8030A the result is absolutely satisfactory, but as I said to reach the perfect pipe organ sound the trick is money, money, money, my Roland C-330 sound is perfect ( 4 organs in it, more than 100 sounds) for a home and study, but I understand people with money wants a different thing, what I'm trying to say is HW is good (not as a real pipe organ) t's very good but a lot of money is needed to get the best results, it's a pity I can not.