Building an LED lighted stop rail with momentary switches.

Hey Hauptwerk people!

We are attempting to build an individually lighted Stop, Stop rail and a combination display for the Paramount 341 theatre organ.

Starting with a Rodgers 322 we removed all of the Rodgers electronics and replaced it with the Artisan uMIDI system and will have 3 manuals, 32 note pedal board, 10 toe studs and 47 thumb pistons on three rails. These switches are all read by Artisan HV64 cards and the MIDI note data sent to Hauptwerk. This all works because we have built several classical organs using this hardware and software.

We then created a challenge for ourselves when we rebuilt the Stop rail tabs and switches to be momentary, normally off switches so that depressing the Stop tab turns the Stop on and depressing it a second time turns the stop off. Again no problem as we have done this successfully on another unit.

The challenge comes from wanting to send a MIDI note on to the Output Board to keep the LED lighted whenever the Stop is in use and the switch is off. This way if a combination piston is pressed and the recalled Combination changes the Stops, any LEDs for these Stops will illuminate or go out as set by the combination action. This means if the Virtual Stop Tab is lit then the physical LED will also be lit.

Is it really as simple as setting the Primary Input on a stop to the desired MIDI note through MIDI learn and then tell Hauptwerk to automatically send the same MIDI note to the Output Board? Does Hauptwerk keep the MIDI note on as long as the associated Virtual Tab is lit?

Best regards,

Thomas

Yes indeed, Hauptwerk will keep the stop LED on and change its state to follow any registration changes wherever the change originates - piston, virtual piston, etc. I don't recall having to do anything except the auto-detect and make sure that MIDI output was enabled to the MIDI decoder.

I suppose a MIDI decoder could overthink the process, but so long as the LED is turned on and off by HW and not the console I can't envision any issues.

[mdyde]

Hello Thomas,

Yes -- as long as your console firmware allows Hauptwerk full and exclusive control of the stop's LED (receiving MIDI note-on to turn the LED on, MIDI note-off to turn it off), and the stop sends the same MIDI channel/note numbers as it sends, and your console firmware never tries to change/override the stop's LED's state unless Hauptwerk has specifically told it to, then everything should just work properly, and all you need to do is auto-detect it in Hauptwerk. Hauptwerk will be able to configure MIDI output automatically, and will be able to perform any momentary-latching translation that might be needed automatically -- just make sure that the appropriate options are ticked on the wizard when auto-detecting (allow MIDI output, etc.).

It works even if the stop sends the message on a different channel than the light receives it, but it requires a bit more manual configuration in that case.

I apologize for going a little off-topic, but I'm getting ready to order Classic Midiworks keyboards for a new Organtechnology console (yay!), and have a MIDI implementation question about the lighted piston option on the CMK3 keyboards.

Does a lighted piston send the same on/off MIDI message as the ones its light responds to?

If so, configuring the lights in Hauptwerk for stops and master registration buttons should be as simple as autodetect. If not, I wouldn't want to take the time to set explicit MIDI out messages for each piston on each sampleset, so I wouldn't buy the lighted pistons in that case.

Anybody have experience with this?

Thank you.

I apologize for going a little off-topic, but I'm getting ready to order Classic Midiworks keyboards for a new Organtechnology console (yay!), and have a MIDI implementation question about the lighted piston option on the CMK3 keyboards.

Does a lighted piston send the same on/off MIDI message as the ones its light responds to?

If so, configuring the lights in Hauptwerk for stops and master registration buttons should be as simple as autodetect. If not, I wouldn't want to take the time to set explicit MIDI out messages for each piston on each sampleset, so I wouldn't buy the lighted pistons in that case.

Anybody have experience with this?

Thank you.

Hi Mark,
I think your question really should be directed to CMW. In general the process for a lighted piston is similar but not the same as what we are doing. No lighted thumb pistons or toe studs are planned in the Paramount 341.

However my opinion (which should be verified by CMW) is that the virtual piston receives a MIDI note on from the piston rail encoder in the keyboard and Hauptwerk sends a note on to the keyboard light decoder to light the corresponding light. If the organ ODF calls for lighting the last piston pushed then that piston will stay on until another is pushed. But if the ODF does not keep the last virtual piston used lit, then the piston will light only while the piston is pushed, unless the keyboard electronics keeps track of such things outside of Hauptwerk.

Thomas

Thank you, Thomas. Midiworks' email server sometimes blocks my ISP, but I'll keep trying.

This conversation sound s very similar to what I would like to do with my Johannes 240 (3MP).

It is what I call part Midi'd to the extent that the mans peds and stops can all be made to work with Hauptwerk though but at the time the job was done I only had the basic version of HW so the person who did the job cut all the cables to the stop LEDS. Unfortunately he retired 3 years ago

I am OK with a soldering iron but I don't know where to start. Do I need for instance another Midi interface etc. which will work off the output side of HW. Can one of you more knowledgeable people supply me with a description of what I need in the way of hardware and schematic.

Btw none of the old Johannes analogue wiring remains I can supply jpegs of whats inside at the present.

I would be most grateful Martin George Reading UK

This conversation sound s very similar to what I would like to do with my Johannes 240 (3MP).

It is what I call part Midi'd to the extent that the mans peds and stops can all be made to work with Hauptwerk though but at the time the job was done I only had the basic version of HW so the person who did the job cut all the cables to the stop LEDS. Unfortunately he retired 3 years ago

I am OK with a soldering iron but I don't know where to start. Do I need for instance another Midi interface etc. which will work off the output side of HW. Can one of you more knowledgeable people supply me with a description of what I need in the way of hardware and schematic.

Btw none of the old Johannes analogue wiring remains I can supply jpegs of whats inside at the present.

I would be most grateful Martin George Reading UK

Hi Martin,

In general what is needed is to restore the wiring to the lamps/LED in the Stops and connect the wires to a MIDI Decoder module which detects the MIDI messages, usually note on/off, sent by Hauptwerk and turns on the lamp/LEDs. This decoder can be a stand alone device and does not need to be the same brand as your encoders. Hauptwerk takes care of knowing when the light should be on or off.

Post some pictures if you can. I would like to see what was done as I have a Johannes 3M with rocker tabs that I might try this on.

Thomas

Hey Hauptwerk people!

We are attempting to build an individually lighted Stop, Stop rail and a combination display for the Paramount 341 theatre organ.

Starting with a Rodgers 322 we removed all of the Rodgers electronics and replaced it with the Artisan uMIDI system and will have 3 manuals, 32 note pedal board, 10 toe studs and 47 thumb pistons on three rails. These switches are all read by Artisan HV64 cards and the MIDI note data sent to Hauptwerk. This all works because we have built several classical organs using this hardware and software.

We then created a challenge for ourselves when we rebuilt the Stop rail tabs and switches to be momentary, normally off switches so that depressing the Stop tab turns the Stop on and depressing it a second time turns the stop off. Again no problem as we have done this successfully on another unit.

The challenge comes from wanting to send a MIDI note on to the Output Board to keep the LED lighted whenever the Stop is in use and the switch is off. This way if a combination piston is pressed and the recalled Combination changes the Stops, any LEDs for these Stops will illuminate or go out as set by the combination action. This means if the Virtual Stop Tab is lit then the physical LED will also be lit.

Is it really as simple as setting the Primary Input on a stop to the desired MIDI note through MIDI learn and then tell Hauptwerk to automatically send the same MIDI note to the Output Board? Does Hauptwerk keep the MIDI note on as long as the associated Virtual Tab is lit?

Best regards,

Thomas

Hooray it works!!
Thanks to the forum for the guidance.

Thomas