suitable midi interface, not overkill

I'm wondering what might be a sufficient midi interface for my minimalist set up:
- a new MacMini with 16 GB
- stereo speakers and possibly a subwoofer
- possibly a Denon wireless transmitter
The interface sold by Martin Digital Organs seems like overkill, designed for an 8-channel system and including other frills. Anyone have suggestions for a more modest interface suited to my setup?

Question:
When I use my laptop with my organ setup, will I need to plug it into my interface? Where do touch screens get pugged into?

In one installation I used a Roland Duo-Capture EX. Two channels of audio + a MIDI interface.

https://www.roland.com/us/products/duo-capture_ex/

About $180 street price plus an AC adapter.

As far as your question, if HW is running on the Mac Mini, what will you use the laptop for?

---john.

Touch screens normally get plugged into the computer where your organ is running.
This is assuming you want to use the touch screen to control the organ.

You could run my eplayWin32 on your laptop and use it to play Estey organ music rolls
from my music roll archive. In this case you would connect it to the computer running the
organ via usb to midi cables. See my website for details.

How do you plan to connect your manuals pedals and swell pedal? You may need one
midi input for each.

csw900

[mdyde]

Hello fermata,

If you just need a single MIDI IN + OUT port, and are happy to connect your stereo speakers/subwoofer to the Mac's built-in output (which should perform perfectly well for real-time low-latency audio, although the quality probably won't be quite as good as a dedicated audio/MIDI interface), then Roland's basic UM-ONE interfaces are good quality:

https://www.roland.com/global/products/um-one_mk2/

(I have a predecessor of that one, amongst my 'MIDI interface zoo', which works well with Hauptwerk.)

If you have several MIDI devices to connect (but don't need audio) then the MOTU Microlite or M-Audio MIDISPORT 4x4 are well-proven multi-port MIDI interfaces that might be good candidates:

http://motu.com/products/midi/lite
http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/midisport-4x4-anniversary-edition

My organ set up will include:
- a pedalboard
- 2 or 3 manuals (which are daisy chained, correct?)
- MacMini
- pair of stereo speakers
- maybe a small subwoofer
- possibly a Denon wireless transmitter
- an audio/midi interface to connect everything

How many midi-in and -out ports does this set up need?

I thought I would use my MacAir for the screen (occasional use only), if I do not use a touch screen. I'd rather use pistons and rocker tabs instead of a touch screen.

I agree with Martin that there is no need for the audio interface since the Mac mini has a high quality stereo output. Almost any sub will allow you to connect to the single stereo channel either with with 'Y' adapters for the low level signal or by feeding the speaker signals in and out of the sub and on the the two speakers.

If you are thinking of daisy chaining MIDI signals I'd strongly encourage going with the MOTU micro lite which will connect to the Mac mini with a single USB cable. It's slightly more than the cost of a quality single port MIDI to USB interface but might save you a lot of issues with MIDI buffering.

Martin said that using the MacMini's output probably won't be quite as good in quality as a dedicated audio/midi interface. I guess the only way to really determine what would satisfy me would be to try both ways!

[mdyde]

Hello fermata,

Audio interfaces come in a wide variety of prices and qualities. Certainly the higher-end ones (e.g. RME) will be noticeably better than the Mac's built-in output, but that may be less so (or perhaps even not at all) for budget makes/models.

- 2 or 3 manuals (which are daisy chained, correct?)

The MIDI standard doesn't officially support daisy-chaining MIDI devices on the 'MIDI OUT' side (from the perspective of the keyboards), but many modern MIDI devices do support it anyway (as an extension to the MIDI standard).

My preference would always be to connect each MIDI port on the device (keyboard etc.) to a separate MIDI port on a multi-port MIDI interface (e.g. a MOTU Microlite). That should give better timing and reliability (since MIDI is a slow protocol) and often helps to avoid potential for MIDI loops and resulting MIDI feedback/freezes/crashes. It should also avoid issues with Windows renaming/renumbering USB-MIDI adapters (and having to configure all of your MIDI settings again as a result), which is a common problem if connecting things to Windows via separate several USB-MIDI leads/adapters.

It should also avoid issues with Windows renaming/renumbering USB-MIDI adapters (and having to configure all of your MIDI settings again as a result), which is a common problem if connecting things to Windows via separate several USB-MIDI leads/adapters.

I believe I read fermata plans to use a Mac Mini. Everything else mentioned should apply to a Mac.

I might add that the Mini's 2 channel audio output is very good. (As long as you can live with the 16 GB RAM limitation. Bummer

Rgds,
Ed

Windows does not rename usb input ports but it does renumber them if
you unplug one or plug another in.

This problem can be avoided for multiple midi inputs via usb if you purchase each
midi to usb cable from a different maker so that each one is known to windows
by a different name.

Well written software uses these names to recognise the inputs and so if there are
any usb configuration changes the inputs do not get mixed up.

As far as I know (and that is not much) about programming midi with the mac OSX
operating system it has the same problem with usb and midi inputs as Windows does.
I would like to hear from a Mac programmer who can tell me whether this is right or
wrong and explain why.

This is important to me because I am currently programming a multi input midi interface
for multiPiston which is my latest project.

csw900

Thanks very much, guys! You are gold!

But as I look online at the MacMini's deriere, I'm wondering where the audio outputs are? I see a tiny Headphone jack next to an Audio In...surely not the tiny headphone jack??

The Denon wireless transmitter appears to have only balanced XLRs and 1/4" inputs. I would probably need some adapter if the cables have to fit into the headphone jack. (Will that jack really hold big, heavy cables, even with an adapter?)

How will the MOTU Microlite interface connect -- via a USB port on the MacMini?

Is this all the connections I will have to make? Isn't there a dongle or something for the Hauptwerk Advanced Edition?

Is the Advanced Edition right for me, or will the Basic Edition be sufficient?

I really appreciate your help, everyone! I'm doing this only once so I want to get it right.

[mdyde]

Windows does not rename usb input ports but it does renumber them if
you unplug one or plug another in.

This problem can be avoided for multiple midi inputs via usb if you purchase each
midi to usb cable from a different maker so that each one is known to windows
by a different name.

Hello csw900,

Windows doesn't rename the USB ports themselves, but its default USB-MIDI driver (which most basic USB-MIDI adapters use) can occasionally change the MIDI port names it presents for any given USB-MIDI interface, especially if there is more than one of the same model attached and/or if you attach/detach other USB devices, and/or attach any of the USB-MIDI adapters to different USB ports.

Well written software uses these names to recognise the inputs and so if there are
any usb configuration changes the inputs do not get mixed up.

Hauptwerk does indeed identify the MIDI ports by the names that the operating system presents for them. However, as above, Windows does occasionally change those port names (if using its default USB-MIDI driver).

Using a good-quality multi-port device (e.g. a MOTU Microlite) with its own manufacturer-supplied driver avoids that issue.

As far as I know (and that is not much) about programming midi with the mac OSX
operating system it has the same problem with usb and midi inputs as Windows does.
I would like to hear from a Mac programmer who can tell me whether this is right or
wrong and explain why.

I can't definitively say that OS X's default USB-MIDI driver doesn't ever do it, but I don't think I recall hearing from Hauptwerk uses of that problem on Macs, whereas on Windows it is quite common. (It comes up frequently on this forum, for example, since organists generally want more than one keyboard, whereas many that isn't relevant in many other areas of music technology.)

[mdyde]

But as I look online at the MacMini's deriere, I'm wondering where the audio outputs are? I see a tiny Headphone jack next to an Audio In...surely not the tiny headphone jack??

The Denon wireless transmitter appears to have only balanced XLRs and 1/4" inputs. I would probably need some adapter if the cables have to fit into the headphone jack. (Will that jack really hold big, heavy cables, even with an adapter?)

Yes -- according to Apple's website, that stereo mini headphones jack appears to be its only audio output connector:

http://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/

You would probably need a stereo mini jack to 2x mono 1/4" unbalanced jack cable to connect it to your receiver.

You could perhaps try it, and if you felt the need for something more robust (and/or higher audio quality) then you could get a dedicated semi-pro/pro audio interface. E.g. the BabyFace Pro is a good small one from RME that has XLR outputs and can be expanded to add more outputs via ADAT:

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/babyface_pro.php

Their UCX, UFX and UFX+ are steps up with more in/out channels (and also Thunderbolt support in the latter case).

We list some other popular makes in these documents (linked to from the 'Support | Requirements' section on the website):

(Audio input channels are irrelevant for Hauptwerk purposes.)

https://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads/documentation/PDF/HauptwerkPrerequisites.pdf
https://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads/documentation/PDF/HauptwerkBackgroundTechnicalInfoOnComputerHardware.pdf

ow will the MOTU Microlite interface connect -- via a USB port on the MacMini?

Correct.

Is this all the connections I will have to make? Isn't there a dongle or something for the Hauptwerk Advanced Edition?

Yes -- both licensed editions of Hauptwerk (i.e. Basic and Advanced) are licensed via the Hauptwerk USB key (dongle), so need a USB port to the connect it.

Is the Advanced Edition right for me, or will the Basic Edition be sufficient?

The differences are covered on this page:

https://www.hauptwerk.com/learn-more/editions/

... and the individual features here:

https://www.hauptwerk.com/learn-more/features/

However, you can also try each edition out by selecting which to evaluate when launching Hauptwerk (without a Hauptwerk USB key attached).

Martin

Thanks for your interest in the multiple midi in problem.

I know the Windows midi in programming interface quite well and am fairly
confident that if any renaming is being done then it is being done by Hauptwerk
and not Windows. The reason being that Windows itself (and I include the midi usb driver)
does not use the names of midi to usb adaptors (it assigns a number starting at 0 in sequence
to each midi input it finds -- including virtual midi input cables). Subsequently it uses these
numbers to assign a Handle to each port when it is opened. These Handles are used when
reading the port and when it is closed.

The programmer can find the names only by querying the numbers.

I will investigate further when I come to debug multiPiston's midi inputs. However I
currently believe that if each midi to usb adaptor is made by a different maker (and thus,
hopefully, has a unique name) there will not be a problem with mixing up midi inputs.

csw900

[mdyde]

Hello csw900,

I know the Windows midi in programming interface quite well and am fairly
confident that if any renaming is being done then it is being done by Hauptwerk
and not Windows.

No. Hauptwerk queries the list of MIDI port names (and their device handles) from Windows, in the correct way, as it always has done.