It is currently Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:54 pm


A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostMon Nov 07, 2016 4:12 pm

I bought a MOTU 24ao for a budget church installation recently. I don't have the console for it yet, but I've been playing around with it using a Casio keyboard. Being relatively new to MOTU and Hauptwerk in general, I have 3 issues I could use help with:

1. When switching between samples sets using a different sample rate, I get an error in HW about setting it to 0Hz because of not being able to communicate or something (sorry I don't have the exact error message and it's not connected to the internet.) I can see the interface switch and lock to the new sample rate, but HW still errors out. If I unload and reload the same instrument, it's fine. Alternatively, I can change the sample rate using the MOTU web tool, and it loads fine. Do I need to somehow delay HW while the interface changes clock rates and locks? I disabled the interface in Windows sound properties to rule out interference. Any ideas?

2. Often the MOTU discovery app takes several minutes to show my device exists in the system tray. Is this normal?

3. If I turn on the interface AFTER loading Windows, HW errors out (something about buffers, again sorry I don't know the exact error message - next time I'll write it down) and the only thing I've been able to do is reboot the computer.

I am using USB. I haven't tried MOTU tech support yet as I thought these might be simple fixes for experienced folk and I can still use it fine. When the organ is launched, however, I have a computer illiterate colleague who I share the bench with and need to make it easy for her. Thanks for any ideas.
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 563
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostMon Nov 07, 2016 4:53 pm

Here's what happens on my installation:

1. I just loaded a 48KHz sampleset, then 44, then 48 again, and the 24Ao followed the changes instantly. No errors reported by Hauptwerk.

2. Motu Discovery takes less than 1 second to locate the 24Ao and less than a second to bring up the web UI.

3. Booting Windows without the interface turned on, and turning it on later, didn't work with my RME. It sort of works with the 24Ao, to the extent that Hauptwerk detects it after it's turned on post-reboot, but the Motu Discovery application doesn't detect it. I always reboot my computer with the interface ON. These buggers aren't plug-n-play or grabbit-quick or whatever the phrase is.

You'll notice I'm not speculating about the causes of your installation behaving differently. No ideas here.
Offline
User avatar

ldeutsch

Member

  • Posts: 452
  • Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:02 pm
  • Location: Chatsworth, California, USA

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostMon Nov 07, 2016 6:37 pm

I am not using the MOTU 24Ao - but I am using the MOTU 1248 in my studio. This is in the same family as the 24Ao. I have it connected to a very fast Mac using the Thunderbolt interface. I can only speak to item "2" above. It definitely takes about 15 seconds for the Mac to "discover" the 1248.

Other than this delay, I have no complaints about the 1248. It does a fantastic job supporting audio recording and playback in my studio.

Les
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 10997
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostTue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 am

Hello Tweedle_Dee,

Tweedle_Dee wrote:1. When switching between samples sets using a different sample rate, I get an error in HW about setting it to 0Hz because of not being able to communicate or something (sorry I don't have the exact error message and it's not connected to the internet.) I can see the interface switch and lock to the new sample rate, but HW still errors out. If I unload and reload the same instrument, it's fine. Alternatively, I can change the sample rate using the MOTU web tool, and it loads fine. Do I need to somehow delay HW while the interface changes clock rates and locks? I disabled the interface in Windows sound properties to rule out interference. Any ideas?


Hauptwerk just asks the audio interface to change to the required sample rate. If the driver reports an error when switching sample rates, or if the audio interface's sample rate hasn't actually then changed, Hauptwerk will report an error. Hence one of those two things must be happening. If you can tell us the actual error number that Hauptwerk's reporting (5147? -- or the exact text) then it would identify specifically which of the two.

I don't think I recall hearing of any cases of that problem arising previously, but conceivably the interface is taking a few moments before the sample rate switch is actually taking effect. There isn't currently a mechanism in Hauptwerk to wait and retry the sample rate as a work-around, but we could potentially consider adding one as an enhancement request for the longer-term future.

However, given that other people are using 24ao units on Windows without that issue it perhaps suggests some driver/hardware configuration issue. I have no first-hand experience with AVB myself, but perhaps the fact that your MOTU Discovery function is taking a while is related (in that perhaps there is a slow response somewhere, e.g. due to it trying to search for, or communicate/synchronize with, other AVB devices). Conceivably it makes a difference depending on whether you're using AVB or USB connections, and/or on the topology of your AVB/Ethernet networking, but that's only a guess. MOTU would probably the best people to talk to for an authoritative answer.

It's definitely worth making sure you have the latest driver installed for it from MOTU too ( http://motu.com/download ).

Tweedle_Dee wrote:3. If I turn on the interface AFTER loading Windows, HW errors out (something about buffers, again sorry I don't know the exact error message - next time I'll write it down) and the only thing I've been able to do is reboot the computer.


In case it's relevant: Hauptwerk itself doesn't support 'hot-plugging', so you definitely need to make sure that all relevant audio/MIDI devices are connected and powered up before Hauptwerk queries them (which it does when it launches). If you have Hauptwerk launching automatically when the computer boots, and if the operating system is launching Hauptwerk before the drivers/hardware have finished initialising, then on the 'General settings | General preferences | Advanced ...' screen tab in Hauptwerk you could try setting the 'Minimum time to wait on start-up' setting to (say) 15 seconds, to allow a bit more time before Hauptwerk starts fully and queries the devices.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostTue Nov 08, 2016 12:54 pm

mnailor wrote:Here's what happens on my installation:

1. I just loaded a 48KHz sampleset, then 44, then 48 again, and the 24Ao followed the changes instantly. No errors reported by Hauptwerk.

2. Motu Discovery takes less than 1 second to locate the 24Ao and less than a second to bring up the web UI.

3. Booting Windows without the interface turned on, and turning it on later, didn't work with my RME. It sort of works with the 24Ao, to the extent that Hauptwerk detects it after it's turned on post-reboot, but the Motu Discovery application doesn't detect it. I always reboot my computer with the interface ON. These buggers aren't plug-n-play or grabbit-quick or whatever the phrase is.

You'll notice I'm not speculating about the causes of your installation behaving differently. No ideas here.


Thank you very much for trying this out for me. At least I know mine is not functioning quite the way it should.
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostTue Nov 08, 2016 12:59 pm

mdyde wrote:Hauptwerk just asks the audio interface to change to the required sample rate. If the driver reports an error when switching sample rates, or if the audio interface's sample rate hasn't actually then changed, Hauptwerk will report an error. Hence one of those two things must be happening. If you can tell us the actual error number that Hauptwerk's reporting (5147? -- or the exact text) then it would identify specifically which of the two.


Thanks. I'll get the exact error message this weekend. I updated to the latest driver just after purchase a month ago, but I'll check again to make sure. Perhaps, I'll try reinstalling the discovery app as well.
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 2:48 am

Here is the exact error I'm getting when switching between 48KHz and 44.1KHz sample sets:

The sample rate was set to 0 Hz, rather than the requested 44100 Hz for ASIO driver 'ASIO:MOTU Pro Audio'. Please try re-booting the computer or using a different driver. Message code: 5147

I tried reapplying the latest firmware and reinstalling the discovery app with no change.

mnailer, what firmware rev are you using? Maybe I'll try an older version if that is what you're using.
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 10997
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 5:33 am

Thanks for the clarification. For a future version of Hauptwerk, I'll look into the possibility of making Hauptwerk wait and retry the query a few times, in case that helps in cases where an audio interface/driver takes a while to switch sample rates.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
Offline

mnailor

Member

  • Posts: 563
  • Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:57 pm
  • Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 10:50 am

1.2.8+780
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 1:06 pm

mdyde wrote:Thanks for the clarification. For a future version of Hauptwerk, I'll look into the possibility of making Hauptwerk wait and retry the query a few times, in case that helps in cases where an audio interface/driver takes a while to switch sample rates.


Thanks.

mnailor wrote:1.2.8+780


That's the latest firmware. Thanks for checking.
Offline
User avatar

TheOrganDoc

Member

  • Posts: 788
  • Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:13 pm
  • Location: South East, Florida, USA

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 2:30 pm

Both of my audio Interface devices Must be Powered up, when the computer is powered up, or they will Not Work ! ! ! :oops: Mel
Mel..............TheOrganDoc...............
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostSat Nov 12, 2016 3:07 pm

Interestingly, now it's working for me to turn on the interface AFTER booting the computer. Changing sample rates still doesn't work without the error, however, I found that if I go into the audio outputs menu and cancel out of it, the organ comes up and seems to work properly. It also works to go to the Engine -> Advanced Use -> Start audio/MIDI.

I don't suppose there is any way to set up an external key mapped to that function since the organ will be headless (at first anyway)?
Offline
User avatar

mdyde

Moderator

  • Posts: 10997
  • Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:19 pm
  • Location: UK

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostSat Nov 12, 2016 3:36 pm

Tweedle_Dee wrote:I don't suppose there is any way to set up an external key mapped to that function since the organ will be headless (at first anyway)?


Those functions can't be triggered from MIDI pistons, I'm afraid (since it wouldn't normally be necessary to do so) -- sorry.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.

[Please use email or the Contact page if you need to contact us privately, rather than private forum messages.]
Offline
User avatar

Tweedle_Dee

Member

  • Posts: 152
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 pm
  • Location: Rainy side of Oregon

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostSat Nov 12, 2016 4:08 pm

mdyde wrote:Those functions can't be triggered from MIDI pistons, I'm afraid (since it wouldn't normally be necessary to do so) -- sorry.


Understood. Thanks.
Offline
User avatar

magnaton

Member

  • Posts: 459
  • Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:28 pm
  • Location: Austin, TX

Re: A few minor issues with the MOTU 24ao

PostSat Nov 12, 2016 5:02 pm

From a basic troubleshooting standpoint, have you tried:
- a different USB cable
- a different USB port on your computer
- a different computer (i.e. using the HW demo version)
- a different MOTU 24ao

Forum members who own or have experience with the MOTU 24ao & Windows have posted here claiming no issues like what you are having. So I'm hoping you can achieve the same and not have to compromise with additional steps when changing sample rates and such. I'm following this thread closely because this unit is on my short list for an audio interface upgrade.

I have a MOTU UltraLite and as others have posted, it needs to be started or running before booting the computer.

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Danny B.
Next

Return to Audio / MIDI interfacing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest