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Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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caper1

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Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 12:15 pm

The organist at my church is interested in exploring Hauptwerk to enhance the existing system. They have an older 3 Manual Allen (probably about 20-25 yrs old) Which was brought over to their new church building in 2001 and installed with speakers arranged around the sanctuary. I would like the trial result be of good enough quality to convince them to go further. So what should we do to demonstrate? I'm hoping we can get the demo version and hook it into the current sound system, but what would be the minimum in terms of computer, sound card etc that would be needed? The organist seems to be knowledgeable about MIDI systems but is not familiar with Hauptwerk. Thanks for any help.
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dhm

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 12:26 pm

See here for advice about using the house sound system (or not):
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concertha ... d/limit/10
Douglas Henn-Macrae
Authorized Hauptwerk Reseller
http://www.midi-organs.eu
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caper1

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 1:06 pm

dhm wrote:See here for advice about using the house sound system (or not):
http://www.contrebombarde.com/concertha ... d/limit/10

I should clarify that I am wondering if the Allen can be used for the Hauptwerk console and the sound can be fed through the Allen amplifiers, speakers etc. I did not mean to suggest using the p.a. system for the organ. Thanks for your input.
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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 1:29 pm

Hello caper1,

With regard to MIDI: Hauptwerk has native support for the MIDI implementations used in MIDI-capable Allen organs of which we're aware, so provided that the church's digital organ has built-in MIDI then I'd expect (although can't guarantee, since Allen might have used MIDI implementations that we aren't aware of) that you should be able to use the digital organ to control Hauptwerk, at least to the extent of being able to use the digital organ's keyboards, expression pedals, and probably most of its pistons to control/play their counterparts within Hauptwerk. (It would probably also be possible to use its stops, but you wouldn't then be able to use Hauptwerk's combination system, since the two combination systems would 'fight over' the states of the stops.)

There is an entry on compatibility with digital organs in general here: https://www.hauptwerk.com/faq/technical/#6

If you haven't already done so, please also have a quick read through the 'Playing Hauptwerk live from a digital organ' section of the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 179-180 in the current v4.2.1 version: https://www.hauptwerk.com/support/documentation/ ), which covers some important points to be aware of, as well as how to connect things up.

They would of course also need a suitable computer on which to run Hauptwerk, as well as suitable audio/MIDI interface(s):

https://www.hauptwerk.com/learn-more/requirements/
https://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads/documentation/PDF/HauptwerkPrerequisites.pdf
https://www.hauptwerk.com/clientuploads/documentation/PDF/HauptwerkBackgroundTechnicalInfoOnComputerHardware.pdf

For installation in a church, stability, reliability and maintain-ability of the hardware and system as a whole, as well as the number, power/quality and locations of speakers, are likely to be important considerations. However, I don't have first-hand experience with such installations myself, so I'll leave others to give offer their advice. There are quite a few previous threads on the forum covering people's previous church installation projects and experiences.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 1:32 pm

It sounds as if the Allen console is to old to have any MIDI capabilities. As converting an Allen to MIDI tends to be either quite expensive and/or labor intensive I'd suggest doing a demo with a single MIDI keyboard using HW with a pedal coupler. The audio from a Mac or an audio interface on a PC could feed the Allen amplifiers and the existing Allen speakers if they are in good shape.

It's easy to explain the limitations of using a single keyboard and the sound should still be great by comparison to the older Allen. Try this at a minimum before deciding on any expensive conversions. A similar demo here in the Pacific Northwest was very convincing. Pick a sample set that's semi-dry with smooth releases or perhaps the direct samples from one of the newer Sonus Paradisi wet sets using the direct/diffuse front channels.
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Tweedle_Dee

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 2:46 pm

I demo-ed Hauptwerk to our congregation using a Casio keyboard in the loft with a row of 6 speakers (thanks John!) and it was well received. In fact, we should be and running in about a week.

Just to add to what John said, use the bass coupler and also the melody (solo) coupler for more options.

Now if we can just get some more versatile dry sets to choose from!!
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engrssc

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 4:09 pm

For a capable, smaller scale computer, you might consider a Mac Mini (2012 vintage). They many times are available used on eBay for approx $400 or so. Most have either 4 GB or 8 GB of RAM initially so a smaller sample set could be demo-ed.with the built-in stereo audio of the MINI.. Max RAM is limited to 16 GB for a Mini, but that isn't too bad if you are considering augmenting an existing organ at least for starters. As was mentioned, the issue is obtaining MIDI output from an older Allen if at all. Tha needs to be verified. The other issue is if an audio inpuit availabloe in the Allen.

Rgds,
Ed
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organsRgreat

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 4:52 pm

I've known two Allen church organs – one of the first, installed in a friend's church in 1968; and a more modern one locally – I think it's designated “Renaissance Quantum”. My feeling is that Allen try to get too much sound out of their speakers – that the enclosures need to be bigger. So if it's possible I'd try to substitute different speakers for those on the Allen, otherwise you may not hear Hauptwerk at its best.

For me one of the best aspects of Hauptwerk is the facility for distributing notes between speakers – so that different pitches combine in the air (as happens with pipes) rather than electronically. My (home) system is configured so that it can either feed a pair of stereo speakers, or two groups of eight. The latter arrangement sounds far more realistic and musical to me – as if the organ is in the room with me. The cheapest soundcards seem to be made by Cymatic and ESI – I don't have the details to hand, but I'm sure other forum members could help.
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engrssc

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 6:52 pm

What type of speakers and where they are installed is a consideration. For the best listening of Hauptwerk, at least the speakers for the most part should be equal, even better, iden tical. Depending on the physical positions of existing speakers, that too,will effect the perception. All of these issues must be considered for the best presentation of Hauptwerk.

Rgds,
Ed
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caper1

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 7:14 pm

Thanks everyone. Your suggestions are very helpful. The organ has MIDI built in, so that will help. Also the speakers are distributed both front and back in the sanctuary, though not visible, I think there is a large number of them. I'll keep you posted on the results of any trial runs.
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engrssc

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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 9:04 pm

I w\ould expect some voicing to be needed rather than using a sample set "out of the box".

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Advice on trying Hauptwerk in a church

PostSat Nov 19, 2016 5:33 am

IMHO after having finished your planned test you might like to invest about two thirds of your considerations into the acoustics ( and budget ) of your project. The above link (http://www.contrebombarde.com/concertha ... d/limit/10 ), if you forget about the stereo speakers and the "sound guy", is a good source to begin with.
It should also be kept in mind that room and organ and congregational "sound sources" should go well togehter.
For example: in a small or heavily damped room a cathedral-like wet organ would not match the then dry sound of the congrational singing or spoken liturgy..
Much success,
amun. :wink:

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