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MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...

MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:50 pm

This is a new replacement Windows 7 machine with my 24Ao audio interface, which was reliable with the old computer. Using USB. The new computer has mostly the same hardware and software.

After I load an organ, it plays for a minute or two, then abruptly goes silent. It's also silent if I walk away for a few minutes and come back.

Hauptwerk graphics show the keyboards being played, normal CPU meter activity, and audio meter shows Hauptwerk thinks it is producing sound. Hauptwerk responds to all MIDI controls.

Restarting the audio engine doesn't do anything. Unloading and reloading the organ fixes the problem temporarily.

The MOTU web control interface stops lighting the channel activity indicators on the Routing matrix, but does refresh so at least there is some USB connectivity to the 24Ao. The level meters on its LCD show nothing. Both of these indicators show activity until the sound stops.

Windows, Hauptwerk, MOTU drivers and firmware are all up-to-date. The firmware hasn't changed since it worked on my old computer, but the driver is newer.

This seems like it may be a USB connectivity issue. I've tried changing USB ports and cables, sample buffer size, and host safety offset, which are the only USB parameters MOTU provides access to (the host safety offset in samples replaces the previous USB streaming mode).

A larger buffer size does seem to delay the failure by a few minutes, but it still fails.

Can anyone suggest things I haven't tried? Is there a simpler test without Hauptwerk that could reveal something?

Thank you.

Not posted to Tech Support because Martin already looked at this and it appears unlikely to be a Hauptwerk problem.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby murph » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:44 pm

If I'm repeating the obvious, then please accept my appologies, but have you checked the usb properties in the device manager?, specificaly the sleep modes? They ALL have to be set to "never".

p.s. This might be burried in the power section.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:49 pm

Found it. The USB hubs in device manager had the block ticked to allow computer to turn off, so I'm retesting now. Thanks!
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:34 pm

Okay, turning off sleep on USB devices didn't solve the problem, but I'm glad to have learned about that. Thank you.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby organsRgreat » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:14 am

On my MOTU 828 mk3 I found the settings in the Audio Console window to be crucial. If only one of those settings is wrong there will be no sound; sometimes sound can be produced but is horribly distorted. On the 828 the Audio Console is only a small window, and the only way I could find it was by using Windows 10's Search facility. You are using a different MOTU device, and intermittent problems are harder to solve than persistent ones, but I thought this might be worth mentioning.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Problem worked around. I dusted off my RME Fireface UFX for the USB audio, and demoted the MOTU 24Ao to a ADAT to analog converter. The RME doesn't seem to have the problem of going away (at least so far), and the MOTU's USB is now only used for configuration.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:49 pm

organsRgreat wrote:On my MOTU 828 mk3 I found the settings in the Audio Console window to be crucial. If only one of those settings is wrong there will be no sound; sometimes sound can be produced but is horribly distorted. On the 828 the Audio Console is only a small window, and the only way I could find it was by using Windows 10's Search facility. You are using a different MOTU device, and intermittent problems are harder to solve than persistent ones, but I thought this might be worth mentioning.


Thank you for the ideas. The latest MOTU software for this unit eliminated the small buffer control window, but I did make sure the settings, now all found on the web interface, were correct and matched what Hauptwerk was expecting.

I guess the problem is in the latest MOTU driver, which wasn't the version I had on my old computer.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby magnaton » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:13 pm

mnailor wrote:Problem worked around. I dusted off my RME Fireface UFX for the USB audio, and demoted the MOTU 24Ao to a ADAT to analog converter. The RME doesn't seem to have the problem of going away (at least so far), and the MOTU's USB is now only used for configuration.


I reviewed the MOTU 24Ao manual and doesn't it give you the option to use a Ethernet cable in lieu of USB to your computer? I'm wondering how that would fair?
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:44 pm

I read the AVB audio over ethernet section on page 29 to mean you have to use a Mac instead of Windows. Maybe I was wrong, but I didn't see how to do it with a PC. The Windows drivers only seem to be for USB.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby organtechnology » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:37 pm

mnailor wrote:I read the AVB audio over ethernet section on page 29 to mean you have to use a Mac instead of Windows. Maybe I was wrong, but I didn't see how to do it with a PC. The Windows drivers only seem to be for USB.


Mark,

You connect the PC to an AVB switch and then connect the Switch to the 24Ao via CAT5e.

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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby murph » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:49 pm

The motu doesn't need an AVB switch for windows to access it's web interface, anything will do. However, as there is currently only the Echo card/driver available for windows ($$$$$$$$), or a couple of similarly expensive software solutions, all of which may not work very well with the motu, you HAVE to use USB for audio (unless you have win10+ thunderbolt, but those motherboards are rare).
Macs from the last few years have the relevant hardware/software for AVB, so can send audio and the web interface over the one cable.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:58 pm

Thomas, what driver would the 24Ao use for an AVB switch? The only driver I can find is USB which seems to be faulty.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby organtechnology » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:18 am

mnailor wrote:Thomas, what driver would the 24Ao use for an AVB switch? The only driver I can find is USB which seems to be faulty.


Since I have not actually done it yet I really can't give a definitive answer. I researched it quite intensely a couple of weeks ago and need to go refresh my memory on what exactly to do. AVB is an IEEE audio and video over ethernet protocol. To access the AVB audio directly from the ethernet port seems to require an Apple computer ethernet port but if the AVB switch goes to both the PC and the AVB devices then the PC can send audio over the ethernet cable. Since I also researched the Dante ethernet audio process at about the same time some of the information has gotten fuzzy. I noticed Murph does not think it will work, so I want to refresh my knowledge a bit.

Best regards,

Thomas
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby mnailor » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:29 am

I'll be interested in how that works out. I suspect I'd still need a MOTU AVB ethernet driver for Windows to do it. Thanks.

For now, using the UFX as the audio interface and 24Ao as a dumb 16 port DAC works fine, and the graphic level displays in RME's software are really useful compared to the minimalist display from MOTU.
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Re: MOTU 24Ao all sound stops

Postby organtechnology » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:56 pm

And Murph is correct!

A PC cannot talk to the AVB network over the ethernet connection. In a system with a PC, the audio connection must be USB2 to the local AVB module. From there the ethernet connection can be made to the second and successive AVB boxes. This is the preferred way even with a Mac except that Thunderbolt is substituted for USB2. This information comes directly from Dave Roberts at MOTU.

I think I was confusing the Dante and AVB architecture. I think your driver/usb problem still exists.
Have you talked to Dave at MOTU?

Best regards,

Thomas


organtechnology wrote:
mnailor wrote:Thomas, what driver would the 24Ao use for an AVB switch? The only driver I can find is USB which seems to be faulty.


Since I have not actually done it yet I really can't give a definitive answer. I researched it quite intensely a couple of weeks ago and need to go refresh my memory on what exactly to do. AVB is an IEEE audio and video over ethernet protocol. To access the AVB audio directly from the ethernet port seems to require an Apple computer ethernet port but if the AVB switch goes to both the PC and the AVB devices then the PC can send audio over the ethernet cable. Since I also researched the Dante ethernet audio process at about the same time some of the information has gotten fuzzy. I noticed Murph does not think it will work, so I want to refresh my knowledge a bit.

Best regards,

Thomas
Complete VPO systems powered by Hauptwerk™. Real Wood Consoles, PC or MAC Computer Sound Modules, Audio for Home or Church.
info (at) organtechnology.com http://www.organtechnology.com

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