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Current Sonar and Hauptwerk

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...

Current Sonar and Hauptwerk

Postby Randall Mullin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:16 pm

Does anyone know if the current Sonar requires the extra MIDI looping and Micro Lite MIDI interface that is mentioned in the Hauptwerk and Sonar 8.5 tutorial? Perhaps everyone has switched to Reaper, but I would just be curious if that is still necessary.

I left this same question (Sonar with VST plug-Ins) with the Sonar staff and have had no response.
Randall Mullin
Hauptwerk 4/Classic MidiWorks tutorial (http://www.randallmullin.com/Hauptwerk%20Experience.pdf)
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Re: Current Sonar and Hauptwerk

Postby mdyde » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:45 am

Hello Randall,

[Topic moved here.]

I don't know off-hand, I'm afraid, although I suspect it would probably still apply (since MIDI sys-ex over VST is a feature that's so rarely used by other VST plug-ins). The issue previously was (and may well still be) that Sonar ignored MIDI sys-ex over VST.

However, my experience has been (since the functionality was introduced in v4.0) that actually almost nobody really wants to use Hauptwerk in the way covered in the sequencing tutorials on the website (with a sequencer dedicated entirely to Hauptwerk entirely for the purposes of recording/playing/editing live performances), and instead people prefer to use it as described in the 'Composing pieces off-line from a MIDI sequencer configured conventionally (Hauptwerk as a ‘slave’ MIDI device)' section of the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 189-194 in the current v4.2.1 version).

Are you sure you wouldn't prefer to configure and use it as described in that user guide section (instead of the way covered in the Sonar tutorial)? The only real reason to use it in the way covered in the website tutorials is that it makes bi-directional control of a physical MIDI organ console possible -- digital organ integration, LCD panel output, MIDI output to control of moving/illuminated stops/pistons, etc.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Current Sonar and Hauptwerk

Postby Randall Mullin » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:14 pm

Hi Martin,

Thanks so much for your quick reply.

First of all please understand that I don't understand any of this, but I can follow step by step directions and pictures. (So, in contrast to the Sonar tutorial, I find the information on pages 189-194 of the Hauptwerk manual more difficult to follow.)

I have set up my system as explained in the Sonar tutorial with two extra midi cables and it works fine.

The reason why I didn't question the extra looping before is that I thought that Sonar needed this Micro-Lite setup to record extra information like touch screen touches and information from certain crescendo pedals. I am only using one touch screen and no movable drawknobs, etc.

If I was incorrect, could I set up Hauptwerk like is detailed in the tutorial for Reaper and switch to the Sonar tutorial for the Sonar side of the installation. In other works eliminating the Micro-Lite completely?
(I may need to help someone else with Sonar setup and that is why I am asking.) Of course, Sonar has changed considerably since the Sonar 8.5 tutorial, but it is easy enough to look for the same controls in other menus in the new version.

I would like to explain my objectives to you, if I could.

I want to:
1. Make a MIDI recording of Hauptwerk performances so that a Piano Roll is available for editing.
2. In the same program, I want to turn the edited MIDI file into a WAV file.
3. It would be nice to see each channel (keyboard) in a separate color in the Piano Roll view, so that in complex pieces that jump from keyboard to keyboard, I do not have to guess (right-click on) what Piano Roll notes belong to which channel.
4. I want the highest quality audio output as possible.

Questions:
Will Reaper produce the same quality audio output as Sonar and fulfill my other objectives?

In Sonar, to be able to see separate channels in different colors each channel has to have its own MIDI track. Is there any problem in simply copying the one MIDI track that is set up for OMNI and reproducing that same track four extra times, changing from OMNI for that one track to Channel 1, Channel 2, etc., for all five tracks for a four manual and pedal setup? (According to Sonar, all of the separate tracks would be combined into one Piano Roll View.)

Many thanks,
Randall
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Re: Current Sonar and Hauptwerk

Postby mdyde » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Hello Randall,

Randall Mullin wrote:The reason why I didn't question the extra looping before is that I thought that Sonar needed this Micro-Lite setup to record extra information like touch screen touches and information from certain crescendo pedals. I am only using one touch screen and no movable drawknobs, etc.


If you want Sonar to record the results of touch-screen touches within Hauptwerk as you play then you do indeed need to set it up in the (more complex) way covered in the website tutorials [not the 'Composing pieces off-line from a MIDI sequencer configured conventionally (Hauptwerk as a ‘slave’ MIDI device)' user guide section.]

However, if you don't specifically need Sonar to record the actions exactly as you play them, (but you do want to record the results of touch-screen touches within Hauptwerk), then a slightly simpler alternative would be to use Hauptwerk's built-in MIDI recorder to recorder your playing within Hauptwerk, then open (import) that resulting MIDI file into Sonar. In that case you would still need to have the console's MIDI ports disabled within Sonar, and to use a real physical MIDI cable to feed MIDI output from Sonar into Hauptwerk (via the 'Sequencer MIDI IN' column/port in Hauptwerk), but you would then no longer need a MIDI cable going in the opposite direction.

Randall Mullin wrote:Will Reaper produce the same quality audio output as Sonar and fulfill my other objectives?


I have no reason to believe that audio quality would be any different. However, I think that many people find Reaper rather more technical (and thus perhaps harder) to use, compared to Sonar. Also my impression is that Reaper's MIDI editing capabilities might perhaps not be as advanced as those in Sonar (or Cubase or Logic).

I haven't used Sonar myself for quite a years, and I only know Reaper to a limited extent, so I'm not really in the best position to advise on which could be the better fit. (I mainly know Cubase and Logic.)

Randall Mullin wrote:In Sonar, to be able to see separate channels in different colors each channel has to have its own MIDI track. Is there any problem in simply copying the one MIDI track that is set up for OMNI and reproducing that same track four extra times, changing from OMNI for that one track to Channel 1, Channel 2, etc., for all five tracks for a four manual and pedal setup? (According to Sonar, all of the separate tracks would be combined into one Piano Roll View.)


I would guess that doing that would result in the same MIDI messages being sent simultaneously on multiple channels (from the various tracks), but I don't know enough about Sonar to be certain.

In Cubase and Logic there are options for making the sequencer split incoming MIDI across multiple tracks automatically during recording, based on MIDI channels. There might well be a similar option/function in Sonar.
Best regards,
Martin.

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