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Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...

Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby damuehlbauer » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:13 pm

I have the Paramount 310 installed and am trying to create a Sostenuto effect using my midi keyboard's Sustain pedal. It appears that I set that on the Options area, stops/switches, etc. What I can't seem to figure out is what settings I use. Using MidiOx I have determined that the sustain pedal sends a CC code - Data 1 = 40 and Data 2=7F for 'on' and '00' for 'off'.

What are the correct option settings?
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby mdyde » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:58 pm

Hello damuehlbauer,

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the continued interest in Hauptwerk.

To connect your MIDI systain pedal to any given virtual switch/stop/piston you should just need to right-click on the relevant virtual switch (on the virtual console) and select 'Auto-detect MIDI ...', then follow the on-screen instructions to press, then release, the sustain pedal (being careful not to touch anything else, so that no spurious MIDI messages are heard). The MIDI implementation you described should be auto-detectable to any given virtual switch in Hauptwerk.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby damuehlbauer » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:05 pm

I should have mentioned in my original post that the auto-detect isn't detecting anything in the stops area where Sostenuto is located. It does detect the Sustain Pedal if I am in the Expression pedal area, and I was able to move a swell show with the Sustain pedal. So it is sensing the Sustain, just not in the right options area.

I have the trial copy of Hauptwerk, if that makes a difference.
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby mdyde » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:43 pm

Thanks for the update.

It doesn't make any difference functionally whether you're using an evaluation or licensed edition.

By 'options area', am I right in thinking that you're referring to a virtual control on the virtual console screen?

If you temporarily load the St. Anne's organ (since we all have that readily to hand), and use right-click auto-detection on one of its virtual draw-knobs (the Open Diapason Large 8, for example), can you auto-detect your MIDI sustain pedal it, so that your sustain pedal turns the virtual stop on/off?
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby damuehlbauer » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:26 pm

I wish I could attach screen shots, but here are some more specific details:

On menu bar click Organ Settings.

If I click Expression/crescendo... I can successfully auto-detect the Sustain pedal and assign it to any of the three pedals and it works.

If I select Stop/coupler/tremulant... that is where I can find the Sostenuto function, but I cannot auto-detect the Sustain pedal. I was trying to manually assign it, but the values I expected -- Midi Control Changes, and Pedal Damper (Hex 40) don't work.

I'm puzzled.
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby engrssc » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:20 pm

Not sure about calling sustain a pedal because it actually is a switch function. The sustain switch may be attached to an expression (swell) pedal but it's function is totally independent of that (expression pedal). In Hauptwerk terminology, a pedal is generally a variable reistance (potentiometer somewhere between 10K and 50K) Or, of course pedal may refer to the pedal board used to play bass notes with one's feet. Some or all of this you may already know.

Here a few pertenant threads that may be of some interest:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5687&p=39459&hilit=sustain+sustenuto#p39459

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15987&p=119959&hilit=sustain+Cantabile#p119927

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13456&p=99520&hilit=sustain+switch#p99520

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16680&p=125464&hilit=Hammond+volume+pedal#p125464

Rgds,
Ed
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby damuehlbauer » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:39 pm

Thanks for clarification on terminology. Clearly, the Sostenuto function is a switch. I'm just trying to use the Sustain pedal on my midi keyboard (which is also a glorified switch) to switch 'on' the Sostenuto function. What I can't seem to do is figure out how to assign it so that Hauptwerk recognizes it.
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby organtechnology » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:24 pm

The Sostenuto and the sustain are almost the same thing.
Sustain holds all notes while the pedal (switch) is active.
The sostenuto only holds those notes which were active at the time the pedal (switch) is turned on and not the ones subsequently struck after the pedal (switch) is turned on.

Sometimes it is difficult to tell which function is active and if your keyboard is issuing a MIDI sustain it will never issue a MIDI sostenuto.

JM2CW

Thomas
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby mdyde » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:38 am

Hello damuehlbauer,

Please try:

- Load the St. Anne's organ.

- On the 'General settings | General preferences | Advanced ...' screen tab, turn on the 'Diagnostics: log all MIDI messages received ...' option. OK the screen.

- Wait 10 seconds or so (without touching anything, so that I'll be able to tell the relevant MIDI messages apart easily in the log).

- (Being careful not to touch anything else, for the same reason), right-click on the Open Diapason Large 8 stop on the virtual console screen and select 'Auto-detect ...'.

- (Being careful not to touch anything else), press down on your MIDI sustain pedal switch.

- Wait 10 seconds or so (without touching anything).

- (Being careful not to touch anything else), stop pressing your MIDI sustain pedal switch. If auto-detection has been successful then the Done button should become enabled. Click it, if so (making sure that the 'Toggle state ...' option is not ticked). If the Done button hasn't become enabled, then click Cancel instead.

- (Without touching anything else), use 'Help | Create a diagnostic file' and send the resulting file to us: http://www.hauptwerk.com/forms/support/ .

- Turn MIDI logging off again on the general preferences screen.

That will allow me to see exactly what MIDI messages your MIDI sustain pedal switch is transmitting, and hopefully thus give a clue as to what the problem might be. Thanks.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby mdyde » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:05 pm

Hello David,

Thanks for the diagnostic file.

I can see that you're using Hauptwerk v4.0.0, which is a very old and obsolete/desupported version, so please first upgrade to the current version of Hauptwerk (v4.2.1). The current version is always available on our main downloads page:

http://www.downloadhauptwerk.com/

It has many important improvements and fixes above v4..0.0. Exit Hauptwerk before installing the new version, and reboot the computer after installing it.

Also, I think I can see the reason that Hauptwerk isn't currently (at least with v4.0.0) able to auto-detect your sustain pedal switch: the sustain pedal is currently transmitting on two MIDI channels simultaneously: channels 1 and 2 (with channel numbering in the range 1-16). It's possible that Hauptwerk v4.2.1 might be more tolerant to that, but I can't remember off-hand. If upgrading to v4.2.1 doesn't fix it, then please see whether you can change some setting within your MIDI keyboard so that its sustain pedal transmits on just a single MIDI channel (it doesn't matter which channel).

Does that solve it?
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby damuehlbauer » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:46 pm

Thanks for all the information. I installed the newest version, but the problem persisted with the Yamaha keyboard that I was using. I could see the problem when I displayed the Midi floating panel. On a hunch, I switched to a different keyboard (an M-Audio) and the problem disappeared and I was able to assign the Sustain pedal successfully.

Thank-you!
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby mdyde » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:23 am

Thanks, David.

You're very welcome. Glad to hear it's working now.
Best regards,
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Re: Using keyboard Sustain pedal for Sostenuto

Postby engrssc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:06 pm

Cantabile offers a Sostenuto function:
https://blog.cantabilesoftware.com/sostenuto-midi-filter-d53257535cde

Cantabile is US$69:
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/purchase/

There is a JS plugin for Reaper to provide the Sontenuto function:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=171516&referrerid=84002

Reaper is US$60
https://www.reaper.fm/purchase.php

With a 60 day free trial available:
https://www.reaper.fm/download.php

Rgds,
Ed
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