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Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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Mike 999

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Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostWed Nov 27, 2019 2:03 am

I adore the faithful organ sounds Hauptwerk reproduces and do a lot of work with notation software, Dorico 3.1 in particular but also Sibelius 7.5, but have always found it too complicated to work out how to use Hauptwerk 4 as a VST instrument to play back my organ pieces. I realize that only the advanced version of HWV will have VST and AU links but wonder if the process of using HW as a VST instrument has been made significantly more user-friendly so that "virtual cords" are no longer required. If so, will there be a trial version I can try out before looking into whether I am able to manage the cost?
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mdyde

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostFri Nov 29, 2019 6:54 am

Hello Mike,

The full set of changes in v5 haven't been publicised officially yet, but, briefly, no -- the Hauptwerk VST/AU Link is the same in v5 as for v4. (The main difference with regard to it is that most people previously only used it as a means for applying external convolution reverb, which they will no longer need to do, given that v5 has native convolution reverb.)
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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GrahamH

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostFri Nov 29, 2019 8:53 am

Hello Mike

I never got my head round VST, and I'm not familiar with Dorico, but I can drive Hauptwerk directly from Noteworthy Composer, so I guess it should be easy enough to do so with other notation software.
Have you tried?
Not sure what you mean by "virtual cords"...?

Regards
Graham
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Romanos

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostFri Nov 29, 2019 10:51 am

Virtual midi cables
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GrahamH

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostFri Nov 29, 2019 12:34 pm

Virtual midi cables


Thanks, Romanos. I guessed that might be what Mike meant.
What I would recommend is:
Get a MIDI interface that has a spare MIDI out port and a spare MIDI in port.
Connect a real (physical) MIDI cable from the MIDI out port to the MIDI in port.
Configure the MIDI-out of your notation software to go to the spare MIDI out port.
Configure Hauptwerk to receive MIDI-in from the spare MIDI in port.
This is much more robust and reliable than trying to do it with a virtual MIDI cable.

Graham
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Mike 999

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostSat Nov 30, 2019 5:20 am

Thanks for your replies Martin, Graham and Romanos.

I will watch for details of the latest version of Hauptwerk (which I have followed and admired since Martin developed it on the other side of the Atlantic) and may yet purchase the premium version if I satisfy myself I can manage the technical challenges. Romanos was correct that I was thinking of virtual cables in my earlier email and I will have another look at what needs to be done to use Hauptwerk as a VI. My present audio interface has no midi inputs or outputs but will look at Graham's suggestion re using a midi interface with spare input and output ports. Ultimately, I will have to choose between the recently released Organteq which sounds quite fine, I think, especially for something that is technically straightforward to use, and Hauptwerk which sits at the very pinnacle of pipe organ software and allows users to choose from a multitude of incredible sampled organs. Thanks and happy music-making to all!
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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostSat Nov 30, 2019 9:18 am

I’m also a dorico user and I’m determined to figure this out (I’ve never really tried in the past). I’ve been making a whole slew of practice tracks for my choir lately and playing them by hand, but invariably that means there are a few mistakes. With all the extra Christmas music we are doing, it would be nice to accomplish this automatically. I will likely follow one of the other tutorials (to link to cubase, for instance) and see if I can modify it to fit dorico. If so, I will post my steps here so you and anyone else can benefit too.

As for organteq, I was appalled when I heard it. It’s better than general midi sounds, but holy schmoly it can’t hold a candle to HW. Their examples are swimming in so much reverb (way too much if you ask me) I can only assume that much is necessary to even render the examples remotely convincing (which, even then, to me they aren’t).
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mdyde

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostSat Nov 30, 2019 11:43 am

Hello Mike 999/Romanos,

The 'MIDI sequencing, the Hauptwerk AU/VST Link and applying real-time reverb: Composing pieces off-line from MIDI notation software' section in the main Hauptwerk user guide (pages 194-199 in the v4.2.1 version) covers the way we recommend using Hauptwerk with notation software in general. I haven't tried Dorico myself, but I would expect the same approach to be applicable.
Best regards, Martin.
Hauptwerk software designer/developer, Milan Digital Audio.
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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostSat Nov 30, 2019 3:11 pm

I just opened the pages Martin referred to in the Hauptwerk User Guide - and quickly closed them again!.
Driving Hauptwerk from a notation software score, or from a MIDI file created using notation software, is nowhere near as complicated as this, and you can do it without invoking VST.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I can't get my head round VST (or Reaper, Cubase etc.) but I routinely use regular (Type 0) MIDI files, created on my desk-top computer using notation software and tested on my Hauptwerk set-up, to play hymns etc. on our church pipe organ which has a MIDI-fied console.

Graham
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Mike 999

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostSun Dec 01, 2019 11:34 pm

Thanks for the continuing responses — trying out the Hauptwerk forum has been a very happy and helpful experience!

Martin—I will take another look at the pages you refer to but remember feeling intimidated when I first looked several years ago (probably an earlier version, though). I am less than fully conversant with much of the underlying technology and, similarly, have no experience actually playing a pipe organ (and do not have an organ console) although I have a lot of experience singing in a church choir accompanied by organ and adore the sound of a good pipe organ. In this respect, there is no question that Hauptwerk is far and away the best there is.

Romanos—I entered the first part of Durufle's Requiem into Dorico using the Organteq trial and three separate organ instruments so I could use different stops in the pedals and two manuals and was disappointed with the organ sound, especially when the reverb was turned down. For the present, I will hold off on purchasing any organ VI and watch for any updates you might post re using Hauptwerk with Dorico. While on the topic of Dorico, I always enjoy and learn from reading your posts on its forum.

Graham—If I understand correctly, your process involves exporting a midi file from your notation software and then importing that file into Hauptwerk for playback. That is ingenious and I will try it out using my older free version of Hauptwerk which has unfortunately been sitting dormant on my computer for several years. However, what I mostly want to do is play back notated choir music accompanied by organ and unless I am missing something, I don't think your process would be useable in that context. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Many thanks,
Mike Philcox
Crofton, BC
Canada
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GrahamH

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 5:08 am

Mike
I have sent you a PM.
Graham
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blueband95

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 9:52 pm

Long-time Finale user here, on macs all the way. I have occasionally used Hauptwerk with Finale, but I have found that it is generally much easier to use the instrument samples included with the Finale/Garritan software. I would love to use HW with Finale more, but I run into a couple of problems:

First, the computer with my advanced version of HW and sample sets is not the same machine I use for composition on Finale. This means there is always a lot of configuring and reconfiguring files and settings when I go back and forth. I can't use my best HW voices on my desktop, and I don't have the other voices I'm using on my organ computer. My organ computer setup also isn't conducive to editing in Finale. I don't know that there is a good fix for this.

Second, I often send MIDI and/or Finale files to my customers so that they can hear my compositions, and adjust them for their use. Having a lot of HW-specific data in these files tends to cause problems. Once again, there isn't much that can be done about this.

What I have done as a work-around is to play along with a MIDI performance of my own composition in real time, while recording the HW voices on Reaper. I then take that audio track and import it into Finale to play along with the virtual instruments I'm using via MIDI. The downside to this technique is that any tweaks or changes I want to make to the organ part necessitate a whole new audio recording on HW via Reaper. .

- Matthew
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Mike 999

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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 2:24 am

Thanks for your input, Matthew. I am very much hoping to playback my notation files using Hauptwerk for the organ sounds but agree it is much easier to use the less faithful sounds included with whatever notation software is being used. Unfortunately, though, your workaround wouldn't work well for me—I am a reasonably accomplished pianist but not a good sight reader. I also have no organ console or, in any event, experience coordinating my hands and feet while playing two keyboards and a pedalboard. I envy your skills and experience that make this practical for you!
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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 3:05 pm

Hello Matthew

Is your Finale computer in the same room as your Hauptwerk computer i.e. close enough to be connected by a MIDI cable?
If so, you could certainly use Hauptwerk as the playback device for your Finale scores.

Regards
Graham
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Re: Hauptwerk V as a VST vi with notation software

PostWed Dec 04, 2019 10:46 am

Graham, sort of but not really. They are in the same room, but about 3-4 meters away with a door in between. They are on the same home network, but that likely doesn't matter. Photos of my studio and setup can be seen here:

http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13940

I've never thought about doing that, but now that you mention it, I guess it could be done. The process would entail hooking up the MIDI interface/out of my Finale/desktop mac to the MIDI interface/input of my HW computer, correct? Then use the HW setup as a AU virtual instrument in Finale? That would seem awfully hard to manage, with a lot of bouncing back and forth to set up and run stuff. Is that the case, or am I missing something?

It seems simpler to figure out a way to run HW as an AU on the same computer on which I'm using Finale. I have thought about keeping HW4 with the dongle running on my desktop/Finale mac, while running HW5 on my console mac, but from what I understand, that would not work, as upgrading to V on my console mac will nuke the dongle for use with any copy of HW. It might be different if I bought V outright rather than upgraded, but that seems like a lot to pay for a functionality that may still be too much of a pain to use with any frequency.

Or, would it be better to just install V on both machines, switching the iLok back and forth to enable V on the machine I am using at any given time, and use Finale to drive HW only with unencrypted sample sets that can be used on both machines?
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