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Lighted Combination Pistons

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...
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jkinkennon

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 9:18 am

Assuming the board can be set up correctly then all the pistons should turn off when Cancel is clicked or pressed on the HW display. Also, changing any stop should turn off all the master pistons unless you just happen to hit the combination that is stored on one of them.

It is possible to test the piston lamps/LEDs with MIDI-OX by clicking on the keyboard icon and hitting the numeric pad '+' key until the MIDI channel is incremented to the same channel as the pistons use. It takes a bit of fiddling to get the right octave using the function keys, try F4 to F7 for starters. Then typing keys will send MIDI NoteOn and NoteOff to the pistons so that they light up while the key is held down. This is a little tricky to get set up but is an invaluable aid in testing.

I assume the pistons are auto-detected as Stop or hold-piston: MIDI note-on/off.
The output should be set to the auto matching mode.
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engrssc

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 9:49 am

What MIDI messages (via MidiOx) are your pistons sending?

Did you verify the pistons set up on the LITSW as in the dependent mode - #909?

damuehlbauer wrote:The buttons do now work for the Master Generals (and I assume they will work the same with my Scoped Combinations).


When trouble shooting it's best not to assume anything. Everything must be verified.

Each organ's (sample set) piston 's must be set up individually. And General Cancel is used to cancel all activated pistons.

A friend is in the process of setting up lighted pistons presently using the same (MRG 2 / LITSW) hardware on his rebuilt Allen. He will use the programming instructions I mentioned. Will see how he does.

A "standard" HW message -
If the source of the problem, and solution to it, aren't then obvious, and if you'd like us to help with it, then (still without touching anything else), please use 'Help | Create a diagnostic file' and send the resulting file to Francois at support [at] hauptwerk.com , which will allow him to see your MIDI settings and logs.

Rgds,
Ed
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damuehlbauer

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 1:05 pm

So, Midi-Ox displays 'Note-On' on both the Input and Output side, but it is a constantly repeating sequence. If I push the first button the note is 'C'. If I push a second button it now displays a line for 'C' and a line for 'C#", and so on. Over and over and over. Seems like there should only be one line.

Next issue:

In Hauptwerk, if I check MIDI-Out for the appropriate port I get an error message and I can't load an organ until I un-check the MIDI-Out port.

Since I can't include a screen shot, the gist of this error message is 'Check that no virtual MIDI cable ports are ticked' and 'Check that no physical MIDI leads are connected from MIDI OUT ports on your computer back to any of its MIDI IN ports, directly or indirectly'.

Auto-Detect selected the "Momentary Piston, Alternating MIDI note on/off", which I changed to Stop or hold-piston: "MIDI note on/off"

I did verify dependent mode, #909.

:?
David Muehlbauer
Mesa, Arizona USA
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engrssc

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 1:21 pm

damuehlbauer wrote:In Hauptwerk, if I check MIDI-Out for the appropriate port I get an error message and I can't load an organ until I un-check the MIDI-Out port.


Lighted piston and/or lighted stops requires MIDI Out to be checked. Hauptwerk controls the piston LEDs. Verify that you aren't getting MIDI feedback.

Page 18 in the User Manual - MIDI merge input - MRG2 only - #972. (esp. last paragraph,)

[i]The merger can be turned off if required, by entering #972 from the keypad. This
is needed for example in Hauptwerk. With merger turned off incoming MIDI is still
recognized, but not transmitted via OUT socket.
Every time any MIDI data is received,
the MIDI IN indicator blinks[/i]

This merger feature toggles between on and off. Enter #972 once, it's off, enter #972 again, the merge feature is back on.

The good news is that you are making progress. Lighted pistons is not a common "thing" in Hauptwerk generally because many real pipe organs from which the sample sets are derived don't have that feature. Not esp needed when you have an instrument with moving stops. With lighted pistons, when you do anything to change the registration associated with that piston, hand registering for instance, that lighted piston will turn off. Those functions are "built" into the HW software.

Rgds,
Ed
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jkinkennon

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 1:46 pm

damuehlbauer wrote:So, Midi-Ox displays 'Note-On' on both the Input and Output side, but it is a constantly repeating sequence. If I push the first button the note is 'C'. If I push a second button it now displays a line for 'C' and a line for 'C#", and so on. Over and over and over. Seems like there should only be one line.


In Midi-Ox click the "Route 66" symbol and then, if there is a short horizontal link from your encoder back to your encoder then right click it and disconnect that link. That should remove duplicate lines and you don't want to echo back what the encoder is sending to the computer.

Again, I haven't run this particular interface and cannot confirm that the piston lamps respond directly to the HW commands as I would expect them to.
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engrssc

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 1:57 pm

jkinkennon wrote:Again, I haven't run this particular interface and cannot confirm that the piston lamps respond directly to the HW commands as I would expect them to.


Yes, John, the piston lamps do respond directly to HW output via the LITSW interface. The associated pistons send note-on and note-off messages to HW. Hauptwerk software interprets these, makes the requested combination changes and sends the corresponding on or off signal to control (via the LITSW) the associated piston's LED.

The LITSW is a combined (24) input piston encoder as well as a (24) output (LED) decoder/controller.

Rgds,
Ed
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damuehlbauer

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostTue Oct 13, 2020 1:20 pm

I am happy to report success! :D

As I suspected, the key was getting just the right combination of settings. So, in summary, the key to getting this to work was:

#972 - to turn the 'Merge' off on the MRG2
#909 - to set mode as 'Dependent'

I was able to set a Master General, a Scoped combination (Divisional) and a General Cancel. The only oddity is that my General Cancel button stays illuminated unless there is at least one stop engaged. But that is not a deal-breaker by any means.

Hauptwerk's Auto Detect worked but I did edit the setting to Stop or hold-piston, MIDI note-on/off. Not sure that is critical, but it seemed a more appropriate setting.

Thanks again to everyone for their assistance!
David Muehlbauer
Mesa, Arizona USA
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engrssc

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostTue Oct 13, 2020 1:38 pm

damuehlbauer wrote:The only oddity is that my General Cancel button stays illuminated unless there is at least one stop engaged. But that is not a deal-breaker by any means.


Glad to hear it's working. You'll notice this GC lamp feature follows the same logic as the Gen Cancel button on the Large Registration page. That's a HW thing. I leave the physical GC lamp disconnected.

You probably realize, this set up thing is quite logical and easy to follow once you see what's happening. And the LITSW is very convenient to use and wire. I use colored ribbon cables connected each to a 16 pin IDE connector for each group of 8 lighted pistons.. Fasten the separated strands of the ribbon cables to the piston strip with either round top staples, if the piston rail is wood, or Bondic adhesive if the piston rail is metal. Very clean installation.

Another "thing", I use a flashing red LED for the setter, green LEDs for the Swell pistons and blue LEDs for Choir pistons. Great, Pedals , Coupler pistons and Generals are clear (white). Stepper buttons are red - not flashing - LEDs. Something like RGB that gamers like so much. :roll: Kinda cool to watch the expression of a classical organist when they first see the colored piston lights for the first time., 8) but actually the color code helps (slightly) to see what's happenin'. The first time seeing colored pistons classical organists are probably thinking 'Now what would Bach say?' :wink:

Rgds,
Ed
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cxl119

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Re: Lighted Combination Pistons

PostWed Oct 14, 2020 7:59 pm

engrssc wrote:
When trouble shooting it's best not to assume anything. Everything must be verified.



This should be pinned somewhere. 8)
Chris Luckenbill
DuBois, PA
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