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Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2 (UPDATED)

Connecting Hauptwerk to MIDI organs, sequencers, ...

Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2 (UPDATED)

Postby John Murdoch » Mon May 02, 2011 11:59 pm

Note: I have updated the Sibelius sound set file, and the related custom Sibelius files. If you have previously downloaded the first version of the tutorial (version 1.0 is printed on the footer of the PDF file), please remove the custom Sibelius files and download a new set.

I have also created a version of the Sibelius Manuscript Paper, and the Corelli score, saved in the Sibelius 5 format--this tutorial, despite the name, works with Sibelius 5.2 and later.


I'm new to the Hauptwerk user community, but I've been a Sibelius user for eight or nine years. I've recently installed Hauptwerk 4 to use as a VST with Sibelius 6.2--the changes to HW4's implementation as a VST has a significant impact on Sibelius users. I kept detailed notes of what I learned--and wrote a tutorial describing installing HW4 and configuring it to use with Sibelius 6. In addition to writing about the how and the what, I also have created some custom files for Sibelius users to make it easier to use Hauptwerk with your scores.

The tutorial includes a custom Hauptwerk sound set file (defining each of the 11 supported manuals in Hauptwerk); a style sheet that includes Hauptwerk ensemble, family, and instrument definitions; a playback definition for Hauptwerk that properly configures your MIDI channel outputs to work with the new channel assignments in HW4; and Manuscript Paper (templates) for two-manual and three-manual scores.

If everything is installed and configured successfully, you should be able to load and play a brief score (Corelli's "Sinfonia Pastorale") which I have also included--you can compare your results with the file I have recorded and posted to Contrebombarde.

The tutorial: http://www.windgap.com/music/UsingHauptwerk4WithSibelius6.pdf
The custom Sibelius files for Sibelius 6 users: http://www.windgap.com/music/HauptwerkSibelius6.zip
The custom Sibelius files for Sibelius 5 users: http://www.windgap.com/music/HauptwerkSibelius5.zip
The test case (the Corelli piece): http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/5094

I'd very much appreciate the comments and critiques of all of you.

John
Last edited by John Murdoch on Thu May 05, 2011 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby arco » Tue May 03, 2011 1:29 am

Wow, I was waiting for this, John!
Thank you very much. I will test it as soon as possible!!!
However, I won't be testing this today, since it's my 9th anniversary today, so have to take the wife out :P
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby James » Tue May 03, 2011 7:23 am

Thank you, John. I see now that I will have to upgrade my Sibelius to 6.2. :cry:
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby John Murdoch » Tue May 03, 2011 7:49 am

James--

Which version of Sibelius are you using?

My sense is that a lot of the file structure didn't change from Sibelius 5 to Sibelius 6 (I went from Sib 4 to Sib 6--I have never owned Sib 5). If you have Sib 5, you might at least look to see if you have the user application data structure that's needed. If so, then at least there are possibilities.

You won't need Sibelius 6.2 in order to install and use Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius. At the worst, you'll have to define your own manual sound set, and adapt it to your own Manuscript Paper. Manual sound sets have been around for a long time--lots of people need to use them.

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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby rogbi200 » Tue May 03, 2011 9:48 am

John

What a detailed and excellent guide for setting things up between Hauptwerk and Sibelius- thank you!

Though I am a Mac user and have Sibelius 5, have managed to follow all the equivalent instructions, and even the Custom Sound Set XML file works- I think, but see below- which makes it rather neater. The underlying structure and screens of Sib5 Mac do look pretty similar to the screenshots and descriptions in your user guide.

Only one problem unsolved, that is the 'got the T shirt bit', and Sibelius resetting HW stops- as I test each division in the Manual Sound Set screen, the stops on that division cancel (or all choose Piston 0) and reset, and the same happens at the start of a playback file. I have 'Send program Change' checked for each division, and a program change of 19 displays, greyed out, beneath- I can't change this at all.

If I *uncheck* and apply 'Send Program Change', then the Test button scale plays with the stops already selected- however in a vanilla Sibelius file (I can't use your demo as they are Sib 6) the stops of the selected division(s) still cancel when I send play :( - though the virtual screen keyboard still plays the correct track for that manual, albeit silently.

I'd rather not spend hours MIDI debugging, but I wondered if I've overlooked something else. What instruction is Program Change 19 sending for instance, that the xml file selects- a MIDI standard program change or a custom instruction? Could there be some incompatibility between your xml file for Sib 6 and my Sib 5? Or could I if required alter the program change to a different number? Should the MIDI file be in any case be trying to clear possibly spurious stops left on before it plays back...

I should note that the same happened in HW3- though the stop resetting was indeed the pistons resetting to the equivalent divisional channel=piston number, though I didn't realise it- in the end I added a few silent bars at the start, set up a sequencer piston with starting registration and pressed that after the file started playing back- a workaround rather than a solution.

Thanks again

David
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby John Murdoch » Tue May 03, 2011 10:09 am

David--

Thanks very much for the information that the sound set file works with Sibelius 5. I have saved the Corelli score and the Manuscript Papers as Sibelius 5 files, and created a version 5 zip file (it includes all of the other files as well);

http://www.windgap.com/music/HauptwerkSibeliusVersion5.zip

I hope you find these helpful.
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby John Murdoch » Tue May 03, 2011 10:19 am

David--

The issue of Sibelius sending the program change:

Specifying program number 19 in the sound set file was simply a hack workaround. I noticed the same thing that you did--but I was watching the MIDI log file. When I clicked on Test, a program number of 19 was sent. When I originally developed the sound set I was sending 1 for the Pedal division, 2 for the Great, 3 for the Swell, and so forth--it took an afternoon of log file analysis to figure out the problem. When I changed the sound set to send 19, the whole stomp-on-your-registration thing went away.

In software development I call that sort of solution a "magic incantation"--if I light this stick of incense, chant that incantation, and stroke my Martin Dyde bobble head doll with a feather duster I'll hear the right organ sound. In other words, I don't know what program number 19 does--or whether there's a better answer. We'll have to find out together. My guess is that program number 19 is an "else" option--it means "don't do anything".

Are you using the St. Annes Moseley sound set? Or something else? At the time I wrote the sound set file I worried that sending 19 would work with St. Annes Moseley, but break another sound set.

The tutorial includes my email address. If you'd like, you can send the Sib score and your registration settings. I'll see if I can figure something out. (I only have St. Annes Moseley, however--so if you're using something like PAB you're WAY out of my league.)

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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby James » Tue May 03, 2011 11:03 am

Hi John
Thank you for all your efforts with the tutorial for Sibelius. I am using Sibelius 5, and so very much appreciate the new download for it.
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby rogbi200 » Tue May 03, 2011 12:14 pm

John

Thank you for the Sib5 compatible file & templates- very helpful.

John Murdoch wrote:Are you using the St. Annes Moseley sound set? Or something else? At the time I wrote the sound set file I worried that sending 19 would work with St. Annes Moseley, but break another sound set.


I happened to have the Silver Octopus 10 stop trial open- so I changed and loaded St Anne's to set the same test conditions- result, the Corelli works fine and no registrations reset :) So I then loaded the MIDI file I had been using, and that too worked first time. So far so good. Next tried two other sample sets (Haverhill Mini and St George's Casavant) and these also worked fine, with any MIDI file I have tried. I then went back to the Silver Octopus 10 stop trial, and the same behaviour as before (divisions cancelling whenever play in Sib5 is pressed) manifested itself. Back to Casavant without any other changes - and all well again. Next up, Velesovo- all fine.
Finally back to the Octopus for a final check- divisional stops and octave/suboctave couplers all cancel (though interdivisional couplers such as Sw Octave to Gt stay drawn). :? Throughout this I have changed no setting on Sib 5 at all.

So it potentially looks like a sample set issue but exactly what might be causing that I haven't a clue. If it's to avoid a piston reset, could it be relevant that the Willis trial set has on each division a piston 0, I wonder?

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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby rogbi200 » Tue May 03, 2011 12:26 pm

John Murdoch wrote:Specifying program number 19 in the sound set file was simply a hack workaround.
<snip>
In other words, I don't know what program number 19 does--or whether there's a better answer. We'll have to find out together. My guess is that program number 19 is an "else" option--it means "don't do anything".


A bit more digging:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MI ... nge_events suggests that Program change 19 is for a 'Church Organ'- which well might make sense...

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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby John Murdoch » Tue May 03, 2011 4:29 pm

David--

Is the problem specific to the Father Willis Standard 10 sound set--or to that specific Sibelius score?

One of the things I have noticed over the years is that you can damage a Sibelius file. I have a file that is banged up somehow--when you hit play, the playback line moves, but nothing is sent to the VST Link interface. Copy and paste the systems from that score into a new score--and the same problem occurs. Re-key that score, and the problem disappears. Somehow, some way, I have managed to screw up the file.

I have tried to find the Father Willis Standard 10 sound set to download and install, to see if I can re-create the problem with a known good score (I'll use the Corelli score, in fact). Alas, I can't find it--if you can point me to it, that would be a big help.

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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby rogbi200 » Tue May 03, 2011 4:51 pm

John Murdoch wrote:Is the problem specific to the Father Willis Standard 10 sound set--or to that specific Sibelius score?


From what I can tell, specific to the Willis Demo Sample set- as the same Sib files work fine with other sample sets but not with that one. It's possibly with the way I have it set up in HW, though as far as I'm aware that's no different to any other set...

One of the things I have noticed over the years is that you can damage a Sibelius file. I have a file that is banged up somehow--when you hit play, the playback line moves, but nothing is sent to the VST Link interface. Copy and paste the systems from that score into a new score--and the same problem occurs. Re-key that score, and the problem disappears. Somehow, some way, I have managed to screw up the file.

Sometimes there can be MIDI messages - preceded with a tilde- hidden invisibly in the score, but I know to show these and none in the files I have tried...

I have tried to find the Father Willis Standard 10 sound set to download and install, to see if I can re-create the problem with a known good score (I'll use the Corelli score, in fact). Alas, I can't find it--if you can point me to it, that would be a big help.


http://www.hauptwerk.com/downloads/inst ... downloads/ and scroll down to Silver Octopus...

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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby B. Milan » Tue May 03, 2011 5:46 pm

Thanks for the tutorial John. I've made this post sticky so that users can easily find it here in the future.
Regards,
Brett Milan
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http://www.milandigitalaudio.com
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby John Murdoch » Tue May 03, 2011 6:01 pm

David--

I have installed the Father Willis Studio 24 sample set--and can confirm the problem. I have loaded several "known good" Sibelius files that play back correctly with St. Annes Moseley--but exhibit this "reset-all-stops-on-playback" behavior.

I have a couple of other sample sets I will try--but this is a concern, because the Silver Octopus Father Willis set is quite popular.
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Re: Using Hauptwerk 4 with Sibelius 6.2

Postby John Murdoch » Tue May 03, 2011 7:20 pm

More on this--I see the same behavior with St. Stephens Anglican, but not with St Augustines Neutral Bay.

Most interesting....
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