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question about 2nd HDD

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question about 2nd HDD

Postby dalest » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:00 am

hello
my SSD is full and i would like to load the future organ sound banks in a second external HDD of 1 TO.
how can i configure HW for this?

Thank you.

bye bye
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby mdyde » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:37 am

Hello Eric,

It isn't currently possible natively within Hauptwerk to have organ caches spread across multiple drives. When running Hauptwerk's installer you can choose to install organ caches ('internal working data') on a different drive to the raw sample set data ('sample sets and components'). However, you can't have some organ caches on one drive and others on another (although we do have logged as an enhancement request that Hauptwerk could potentially handle caches spanning multiple drives natively).

Hence if your current SSD is full then you would either need to clear out (e.g. un-install) some organs that you don't use or get a bigger drive and put all of your caches on that new, bigger drive instead. To do the latter, just re-run Hauptwerk's installer (make sure you use 'File | Backup ...' in Hauptwerk first for good measure), select the 'custom' installation mode and then select the new drive for the 'internal working data' folder location.

(An alternative for advanced computer users might be to set up additional SSDs as part of a JBOD or RAID-0 RAID array, so that the operating system and Hauptwerk see them all as one single larger drive, but that's beyond the scope of what we'd be able to help with, I'm afraid.)
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby dalest » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:40 am

thank you for your explanation.
it's clear.
i'll do the transfer.
i'll buy a HDD with 2 TO i think ;) ;)
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby mdyde » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:14 am

Thanks, Eric.

You're welcome.
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby ernst » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:32 pm

dalest wrote:thank you for your explanation.
it's clear.
i'll do the transfer.
i'll buy a HDD with 2 TO i think ;) ;)


Hi Eric,

A large HD is a fine and sure solution, but a slow one.

I am using for about 2 years now a RAID-0 arrangement of 3 HDs of 1TB, and it´s very fast (3 times the normal disk speed) AND it is large (3TB, which I have divided in 2 parts).
You could also buy a second SSD of the same size you do have (the minimum disk size governs the usable RAID disk size). That´s even a lot faster!
BUT - granted, as Martin says, installing RAID systems is not everyone´s cup of tea. It does mean that the operating system and everything else must be installed fresh with the disks arranged from the very start in RAID mode. There are other ways (software) of making a RAID arrangement but I don´t recommend those.

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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby dalest » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:57 am

thank you Ernst but how do you do for installing files on 3 differents DD?
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby RichardW » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:36 am

Erik,

If you have a RAID setup with three disks you do not need to worry about how the data is spread over those disks. The RAID system does that.

All you have to do is install things in the usual way to "the disk" and RAID will assign the data to the real disks for you.

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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby dalest » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:16 am

ok but does it work with external DD?
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby ernst » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:22 am

dalest wrote:ok but does it work with external DD?


Hello Eric,

Have a read about advanced storage options, including external drives:
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/a-begi ... d-storage/
Several companies offer bays for housing several HDs which can be operated as a USB3 RAID.

I have only experience with Win7 and RAIDs of internal drives and so I refer to that.
I have chosen to use a RAID with internal drives because it is the cheapest solution: the housing and interface are already present. USB 2 is far to slow for an external RAID bay and USB 3 would do but I still experience a lot of inconveniences with USB 3. Obviously SATA3 connections of the motherboard are still the fastest way.

In case you want to explore the route of internal RAIDs I give below a summary of my experience.

Internal RAID is limited to a NEW installation of the OS where from the very beginning of installation the disks are grouped as a RAID. That is essential because otherwise the RAID driver will not be installed and you cannot install that driver and change your system afterwards.

Standard, Windows installs with the HDs in so-called IDE mode. You can change that in the BIOS (BEFORE the installation of Windows) from IDE to AHCI or RAID. Both IDE and AHCI are modes which treat each HD as a separate disk. Only RAID mode allows that groups of HDs are seen by the operating system in a different way. RAID mode exists in some 10 variants which each their own advantage. The typical advantages are either a safer operation (same information shared on 2 or more HDs so if one fails the other(s) still keep the information and the failed HD is automatically repaired by the system if possible), or the data is spread over 2 or more disks which means that writing and reading goes twice or three times as fast but failure risks increase as well. There are also RAIDs (with 3 or more HDs) which combine both systems - so both safer and faster - but you need several HDs for that. Typically a motherboard has 6 SATA connections for drives. So if you use one for your C-drive and one for your CDROM drive, 4 are left for - i you wish - a RAID data arrangement. For very professional systems you can install a RAID PCIe card - better, faster but expensive.

As I wrote before I use a RAID-0 arrangement where the info is spread automatically over 3 HDs, though the OS sees them as ONE disk. They get one name and one letter designation together. As Richard wrote the OS spreads the info over the 3 HDs when writing and searches and combines them from the 3 HDs when reading.
As a consequence, this RAID-0 is almost 3 times as fast as a single HD, BUT the risk of failure is also approx. 3 times as high. If one of the 3 HDs fail, the RAID breaks and all data are lost.

I have taken that risk, because the RAID only contains the installed and cached sample sets, which I have on DVD (or a spare external HD) anyway. All critical data should NOT be put on a RAID-0.
I use this 3 RAID-0 now for 2 years and not once has it failed me. Practically speaking it functions as well as a third-generation SSD (my speeds are in the order of 500-600 MB/s), but with 3TB capacity!!!

HOWEVER - you must be well experienced in tweaking Windows, prepared to experiment, to install Windows twice or thrice if you have bad luck, and to investigate which RAID parameters (stripe and format size) works best for you.
There is a lot of info on internet but it WILL cost you time and effort.
It is for a good reason that Martin Dyde warned and said that they don´t give support to this arrangement. And he´s right.
So you´re warned.
A RAID is a promise of low cost high performance, and a misery if you can´t handle it.

All the best. :D
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby IainStinson » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:17 pm

Rather than using RAID I have used the following to put the caches for alternative configurations on different disks. You need to use different Hauptwerk Alt Configs for this to help alleviate the problem of running out of space on the SSD

On Windows I've used a link to allow the caches for less frequently used configurations (not sample sets) to on another (slower) disk. The caches are in the directory HauptwerkInternalWorkingFiles - you can configure where this is when you install Hauptwerk. I just moved one of the caches to a second drive and used the Windows mklink command from the line command to create the link in the HaputwerkInternalWorkingFiles directory replacing the cache file I moved, being very careful to make the link name identical to the directory I moved. By setting up the less frequently used instruments in alternative configurations, their caches can be located way from the smaller (and more expensive) SSD.

This is not a supported way to use Hauptwerk but I found it useful to preserve space on a small SSD.
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby ernst » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:44 pm

IainStinson wrote:Rather than using RAID I have used the following to put the caches for alternative configurations on different disks. You need to use different Hauptwerk Alt Configs for this to help alleviate the problem of running out of space on the SSD

On Windows I've used a link to allow the caches for less frequently used configurations (not sample sets) to on another (slower) disk. The caches are in the directory HauptwerkInternalWorkingFiles - you can configure where this is when you install Hauptwerk. I just moved one of the caches to a second drive and used the Windows mklink command from the line command to create the link in the HaputwerkInternalWorkingFiles directory replacing the cache file I moved, being very careful to make the link name identical to the directory I moved. By setting up the less frequently used instruments in alternative configurations, their caches can be located way from the smaller (and more expensive) SSD.

This is not a supported way to use Hauptwerk but I found it useful to preserve space on a small SSD.


I second this approach. It is an excellent way to put data directories where you want them, independent of what the software is expecting.

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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby holken » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:04 am

It isn't currently possible natively within Hauptwerk to have organ caches spread across multiple drives. When running Hauptwerk's installer you can choose to install organ caches ('internal working data') on a different drive to the raw sample set data ('sample sets and components'). However, you can't have some organ caches on one drive and others on another (although we do have logged as an enhancement request that Hauptwerk could potentially handle caches spanning multiple drives natively).

Hi. I have the same issue as the original author and have a follow-on question. I'm thinking of putting the organ caches on the internal SSD of my laptop and the raw sample sets on an external drive. In this case, would it be possible to run Hauptwerk without the external drive (raw sample sets) connected, provided that I had once loaded the sample sets I wanted to use? Also in that case I wonder if and how I could remove a sample set from the cache once I no longer need to have it at hand?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby mdyde » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:13 am

holken wrote:Hi. I have the same issue as the original author and have a follow-on question. I'm thinking of putting the organ caches on the internal SSD of my laptop and the raw sample sets on an external drive. In this case, would it be possible to run Hauptwerk without the external drive (raw sample sets) connected, provided that I had once loaded the sample sets I wanted to use?


Hello Holken,

All of Hauptwerk's folders do need to be present whenever Hauptwerk is running, including the HauptwerkSampleSetsAndComponents folder that contains the raw sample files. It isn't possible to run Hauptwerk without that folder being present, even if you have previously loaded the relevant organs (and thus their samples are already cached) -- various other files and sub-folders will still be needed. Hence if you installed that folder onto an external drive, then you'd need to make sure that the drive remained attached whenever using Hauptwerk.

holken wrote:Also in that case I wonder if and how I could remove a sample set from the cache once I no longer need to have it at hand?


Using 'File | Un-install ...' to un-install the relevant 'Organ: ...' -prefixed entry will always remove any sample set caches that you may have for an organ. (A prompt will also be shown asking whether you also want to remove settings and combinations for the organ, but the sample set caches will be cleared regardless.)

(If you don't plan to use the organ in the future, then also un-install its 'Data: ... entries, which will remove the raw sample data.)
Best regards,
Martin.

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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby holken » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:59 am

Thanks for a very clear answer. Consider this a feature request then: I'd love to be able to have a large selection of sample sets on an external hard drive (or network drive) and the ability to use as well as load/install them while connected to the large storage, but then use only the ones installed when I'm on the move. I guess I could install/uninstall the organs but I think it will feel a bit cumbersome.
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Re: question about 2nd HDD

Postby mdyde » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:48 am

Hello Holken,

Thanks for the suggestion. We have an existing enhancement request logged for Hauptwerk to allow its organ installation and cache folders to span multiple drives, so I've added to that request that you'd also like Hauptwerk still to be able to work with the remaining organs when one or more of the drives is off-line/detached.
Best regards,
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