Issues with audio output multichannel settings

I just purchased 6 high performance passive bookshelf monitor speakers, and an 8 channel amp to finally add multichannel output to my HW VPO. After setting up all the hardware and connecting it to my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 MIDI audio interface, I began trying to follow the excellent tutorial by Darryl Wood (http://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/home/view_cat/cat/3/sort/17/order/last_modified/limit/6)for setting up multichannel output using HW's algorithm.

Here is the initial screen I get when I go to General Settings-->Audio Outputs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7rp2z3ks7ki27t/image.png?dl=0

Then when I try to create another output by pressing Insert in the left column, these are the options presented in the audio output device dropdown:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p54gsoz9wnhmmrl/image-2.png?dl=0

Then after selecting the most appropriate option, there are still only two channels to choose from, 1 & 2, even though my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 has 8 channel output:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/anybwm8uqkpr9bi/image-3.png?dl=0

I can't figure out why HW displays my audio interface as "Direct Sound: Line Out (6- Scarlett 18i20 USB)". In my efforts to resolve this issue, I have tried the following:

Reinstall Focusrite drives for my audio interface
Checked all my cables many times, confirming that everything is connected appropriately
Restored HW to factory default settings

I will say that I can still play my organ and listen on headphones through my Focusrite interface just fine, so it appears to be working. But for some reason, HW isn't treating it appropriately to allow me to utilize its 8 channel output capability.

Can anyone help me solve this? I sincerely appreciate any assistance you can offer!

Dan

(P.S. Sorry I couldn't figure out how to paste my images into the post.)

You need to select the ASIO outputs for each set of outputs. Direct sound will only give you 2, ever.
The drop down that you display in pic 2 should be accessed in step 1, select ASIO and then select out 1-2.
In your second pic stage, select ASIO, then out 3-4, etc.

Thank you very much! That makes a lot more sense.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to route the channels I'll be using in HW (1-6, + a mix down for the sub) to the appropriate line outputs on my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. This device has 8 channels with discrete line outputs which are numbered 3-10, plus 2 monitor outputs (1&2). It looks like you can route your output channels within Scarlett Mix Control software. Do I need to go in there to do the routing? From what I can understand, it looks like you could route maybe from HW channel 1 to the Focusrite output 3, HW 2 to Focusrite 4 and so forth. Or will this just happen automatically? In the Scarlett Mix Control software it gives several options for routing: DAW tracking, Ultra Low Latency Tracking, Mixing, and Loopback where you can apparently assign channels. I'm sorry, this is like a foreign language to me, and maybe I'm overcomplicating it, but can you shed any light on how I get the channels appropriately routed from HW to the right outputs on my interface?

I don't have Focusrite hardware, so no ideas there, BUT, normally you shouldn't have to use the specific software, once the ASIO drivers are enabled (but, Focusrite is apparently fussy about the exact time division with latencys.... Try making HW latency cycles divisible by 256.....)

Are you trying to make an audio group for cycling, or do you want discrete outs for front/rear/echo etc?

The approaches are quite different.

I'm planning to do the audio group approach as I understand it. I've read that you can have the HW software assign C, C#, D to group 1; D#, E, F to group 2, etc.

Ah, that's where the fun starts!!
Basically, you have to tell HW you're creating a group. Then you have to tell HW what's in it. Then HW will throw a hissy-fit, then you go back and re-tell HW what the original purpose was and hissy-fit over. (Read the manual/tutorials...........) It's not immediatly obvious, or necessarily intuitive, but I can understand why HW can't auto-create without the relevant data, which can only be scoped when the original concept is defined,,,,,,,,,,,etc.
Not the simple answer, but once you do it once, childs play from then on.

I'm planning to do the audio group approach as I understand it. I've read that you can have the HW software assign C, C#, D to group 1; D#, E, F to group 2, etc.

So there isn't any confusion, HW refers to a group (Audio Group) that can contain 1 or more channels (speakers). The ContraBombarde document you listed does a nice job of configuring the channels (stereo, L&R). Then on steps 6 & 7 of that document, is the audio group assignment. Yes, the concept of output channels, audio groups, and mix-down can be confusing at first but you have seem all the correct parts to know pretty quick if you have this setup correctly or should I say with your objective in mind.

There are 4 different routing algorithms in HW that vary how notes are distributed to x amount of speakers. The design you listed is called Tone Mode 1. I'm leaving out lots of detail here since there are other documents available to read. I've listed a link below to another one since it describes how to assign multiple channels to a single audio group plus a mix-down for a subwoofer:
http://www.paramountorganworks.com/downloads/ParamountAudio.pdf


Danny B.

I would suggest making sure you have selected the Direct Routing (which is the default) for the Scarlett (on the Focusrite Control software pg 18 of the user guide).

On Windows make sure that the Scarlett has not become the default Windows sound output system. In HW you must select the ASIO outputs (not DirectSound) - you should see 10 analogue outputs available which correspond to the analogue outputs on the unit.

See http://forum.hauptwerk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15542#p116370 for my recommendation on using multichannel output...

Iain

Thanks to all who have shared advice. I have been able to set up the audio groups and mix down as shown here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8p1llnzul1j7yz/image-5.png?dl=0

However, since doing this, I have been unable to get any sound out of my headphones (connected to my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20) or the amp and speakers which are correctly set up to receive the 3 stereo pairs of output from the interface. Prior to my attempts at setting up multi channel audio, the organ was working just fine using the same headphones with the Scarlett. However, now I cannot get any audio at all. In my efforts to resolve this issue, I have downloaded and installed the current drivers from Focusrite, reset HW settings to default and used the HW general configuration wizard, all to no avail. Here is what I see in the wizard:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bhxnp4jq2emtggf/image-4.png?dl=0

I can confirm that the the on screen MIDI indicator lights do show activity when I depress keys on the manuals and pedals, so there is MIDI connectivity. Any ideas what to check from here?

And if there is a better way for me to include images (hopefully I won't have to much more), please let me know.

Dan

Thanks to all who have shared advice. I have been able to set up the audio groups and mix down as shown here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u8p1llnzul1j7yz/image-5.png?dl=0

However, since doing this, I have been unable to get any sound out of my headphones (connected to my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20) or the amp and speakers which are correctly set up to receive the 3 stereo pairs of output from the interface. Prior to my attempts at setting up multi channel audio, the organ was working just fine using the same headphones with the Scarlett. However, now I cannot get any audio at all. In my efforts to resolve this issue, I have downloaded and installed the current drivers from Focusrite, reset HW settings to default and used the HW general configuration wizard, all to no avail. Here is what I see in the wizard:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bhxnp4jq2emtggf/image-4.png?dl=0

I can confirm that the the on screen MIDI indicator lights do show activity when I depress keys on the manuals and pedals, so there is MIDI connectivity. Any ideas what to check from here?

And if there is a better way for me to include images (hopefully I won't have to much more), please let me know.

Dan

I do not see the headphone audio ch1,2 mixdown. Since I can't see the other screens used in this process, I am forced to assume that ch 3,4, ch 5,6, ch 7,8 and ch 9,10 should be set up to receive pipe audio and mixed down to ch 1,2 for the headphone jacks. All the sources should be in stereo as the destinations are all stereo except the subwoofer.

If the 18i20 has a mixer screen you should verify audio going to the audio module. If you want to(and have high speed internet), we can do a TeamViewer11 hookup and I can walk you through the Hauptwerk multi-channel setup.

Thomas

[mdyde]

I can confirm that the the on screen MIDI indicator lights do show activity when I depress keys on the manuals and pedals, so there is MIDI connectivity. Any ideas what to check from here?

Hello Dan,

To add to Thomas' reply, note that you would need to auto-detect your MIDI settings again (right-click on the virtual keyboards, select 'Auto-detect ...', etc.) if you'd reset your MIDI settings. The virtual keys on the screen should then move when you keys on your MIDI keyboard(s).

And if there is a better way for me to include images (hopefully I won't have to much more), please let me know.

The way you're posting the images is as good as any. (Images can't be uploaded directly to the forum.)

However, since doing this, I have been unable to get any sound out of my headphones (connected to my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20) or the amp and speakers which are correctly set up to receive the 3 stereo pairs of output from the interface.

This could be to do with the routing in the Scarlett. Make sure that you have "direct routing selected". Assuming yours is a second generation unit this is described on page 15 of the guide to using the software ("Focusrite Control User Guide Scarlett second generation"). It says:

"Direct Routing
With complex mixing sessions, it is sometimes desirable to perform the final mix in a separate,
physical mixing console. The Direct Routing Preset configures the Scarlett for this task, as it routes
DAW playback tracks in numerical order to all the available Scarlett outputs."

Note that the phones outputs on the front panel are the same as inputs 7/8 and 9/10

To try and check out the setup you could use one of your alternative configurations to check out each of the audio channels in turn. Don't set up any multi channel groups but in turn load a sample set (St Anne) and only activate one rank (so the caching is quick), and connect this to ONE of the ASIO output channels in turn and then see if sound comes from your audio system. (you could also use Al Morse's Calibration Organ http://almorse.net/content_freeorgans.html) to help checkout the channels in a more streamlined way)

You might look at the Monitor function of the Scarlett (pg 27 of the Control User Guide). I am able to use this on my Pro40 to enable/disable the speakers and run with only headphones.

Good luck.

Iain

I do not see the headphone audio ch1,2 mixdown. Since I can't see the other screens used in this process, I am forced to assume that ch 3,4, ch 5,6, ch 7,8 and ch 9,10 should be set up to receive pipe audio and mixed down to ch 1,2 for the headphone jacks. All the sources should be in stereo as the destinations are all stereo except the subwoofer.

I have always just used one of the 2 headphone jacks on the Scarlett 18i20, and it has worked fine. I just assumed that it would playback all the channels coming into the unit. That's why I didn't do a separate mix down. Channels 1 & 2 on the Scarlett are monitor out. The 8 channels of discrete output are numbered 3-10 and are visible as such in the HW dropdown menus when doing the multi channel output setup. That leads me to conclude that HW does actually recognize the Scarlett unit.

If the 18i20 has a mixer screen you should verify audio going to the audio module. If you want to(and have high speed internet), we can do a TeamViewer11 hookup and I can walk you through the Hauptwerk multi-channel setup.

Thank you for your generous offer to do a screen share session. That would be fantastic! I will PM you and we can make arrangements.